PETITION: Regarding FINAL FANTASY XIV Steam Version (Mar. 8)

[Eli85]

Telling people they're screwed and/or stupid for not knowing things upon purchase because they shoulda read the entire contract in the ToS is a moot point, the issue being discussed is a request for SE to allow people to port over, NOT to simply bash and complain with 0 proposed options etc.

It really isn't a moot point. If you agree to conditions, then the conditions turns out to be something that you don't like, you have no one but yourself to blame, and to be angry about it is childish.

Going to Steam and complaining WILL NOT do anything, as people would be redirected to SE within a month of them finally getting their ticket answered.

This, right here, is why purchases should never be made with Steam. But be that as it may, players affected by this bought from Steam, knowing full well (if they read the Steam Terms of Service) that this could happen one day, and many others of its kind.

Purchases, NOT subscriptions. They've already obtained their cut from previously purchased expansions.

I never disputed this. Also it's for future expansions. Why, if Valve / Steam is not legally bound to do so, would they not want players in their ecosystem? They'll get a cut for Shadowbringers and the expansions that follow. There is still a significant amount of money to be made by Valve / Steam.

Show me one game that ever had this enforced through steam. The profits are through actual game/expansion purchases, while in the account info and everything is bound to SE as it is their property.

Example: User purchases Stormblood from Steam, steam gets its cut however all information is still stored on the SE servers. User now needs a PC license because this is an SE REQUIREMENT, and the purchase is now made per swap. NOW the user is allowed to access their data on SE systems since they now contain a NEW license through SE vs Steam.

Steam's policy to push is to increase their reported numbers, for games going through their clients, vs going around it. People are in business to make money, customers are 2nd. Hell, based on your devil's advocate to this, we could also say that SE and Steam were doing this to improve numbers on both ends, i.e People get wind of this, SE / Steam do nothing, people rebuy and start over on the PC client and SE profits from new keys/jump potions etc of people clamming to get their progress back.

I don't have to show you any other game. Players bought the game from Steam. When you use Steam, you agree to their Terms of Service, which allows them to add these pre-checks and whatever else. There is no valid ground for people to complain. If you don't like this, it's your fault for buying from Steam. Just don't do it again and complain to Steam. Bringing it up here, to S-E, is less than vain.

As wild as that sounds, (and highly doubtful) it would be beyond messed up. Just because you think nothing will happen and people are just screwed and need to move on, doesn't mean they shouldn't try. To reiterate AGAIN, this is a precheck cursor, and the game keys are statistical information utilized by steam, if a user were to repurchase/acquire these through SE via the PC method, without breaking any laws they would be able to access their personal information since again the keys are the access ( per expansion / content ) but ultimately the information (character data/settings) are owned by SE. The only main caveat here is that users would more than likely need to repurchase ALL keys from ARR -> Shadowbringers to be allowed to do this to cover ANY possible legal measure in between. WHICH I"M ALL FOR.

People need to accept that this likely will not happen. I get it, ESO allows it, probably because they were allowed to, legally. S-E has not allowed it at any point in the past, and not with their announcement. Why is that? Logically, you would think they would, as it would mean more money in their pockets. Seems like a slam dunk, right? Well, it's not, because, in all likelihood, their contract with Valve / Steam very likely prohibits it. I mean, why else would they say no to free money? I'm not for screwing over players, but when you look at the facts objectively, petitions like this just breed false hope.

[LunaP]

It really isn't a moot point. If you agree to conditions, then the conditions turns out to be something that you don't like, you have no one but yourself to blame, and to be angry about it is childish.

As per others have put out, this was not part of the intial condition, + yes it is a moot people to call everyone retarded because something changed 5 years later and they simply wanted to voice their opinion in hopes of something being said. The angry childish person here is you since you seem to really be adamant about shutting this down for everyone, why are you so heated up?

This, right here, is why purchases should never be made with Steam. But be that as it may, players affected by this bought from Steam, knowing full well (if they read the Steam Terms of Service) that this could happen one day, and many others of its kind.

It feels like you're grasping at straws here, reiterating the same statement over and over and ignoring whats being said, why is that?

I never disputed this. Also it's for future expansions.

But you did, you keep assuming that subscriptions go to Steam when they got to SE.

Why, if Valve / Steam is not legally bound to do so, would they not want players in their ecosystem?

Noone said they didn't.

They'll get a cut for Shadowbringers and the expansions that follow. There is still a significant amount of money to be made by Valve / Steam.

Yes, thank you for reading what I said finally on EXPANSIONS, NOT SUBS, what is the argument here then?

I don't have to show you any other game.

Then stop arguing if you want to pull the " I don't have to show proof you people are just dumb stop complaining and suck it up" You're being a troll at this point. If you're going to argue something and name shame then at least have some good information to do so vs treating this like an aeris death.

Players bought the game from Steam. When you use Steam, you agree to their Terms of Service, which allows them to add these pre-checks and whatever else. There is no valid ground for people to complain. If you don't like this, it's your fault for buying from Steam. Just don't do it again and complain to Steam. Bringing it up here, to S-E, is less than vain.

Beating a dead horse, this is literally the only thing you keep bringing up lol, now u just took what I said in the previous statement and added it, but given your context I don't think you understand at all what that means. Do you actually have anything to argue or is this the "childish" notion you're referring to? {Please help me understand}.

People need to accept that this likely will not happen.

You need to accept that this is a public rally, not a 1 way street, if its not to happen, thats up to SE to come here personally and state that, not for you to come in angrily throwing a tantrum that people happen to have opinions and concerns about things and are attempting to rally together in the hopes of being heard in an otherwise mostly ignored part of the forum.

I get it, ESO allows it, probably because they were allowed to, legally.

I don't think you do because you keep contradicting yourself here, you're unsure so you're saying probably but then you're 100% certain when you're saying SE like you know something that you're probably also not going to share because you "don't have to because we're stupid"

S-E has not allowed it at any point in the past, and not with their announcement.

Except its been the normal means until now with this official announcement, as far as access has been concerned, and they have done this in the past as well but for platforms, re read my previous statements on why please.

Why is that? Logically, you would think they would, as it would mean more money in their pockets. Seems like a slam dunk, right? Well, it's not, because, in all likelihood, their contract with Valve / Steam very likely prohibits it.

Again with the maybe's, but 100% certain, but also probably, you really should stick with volatile information, I feel at this point you keep repeating this over and over in hopes that people will fight you and take things out of context just to get the thread closed, but at the same time would definitely love to hear why you're so upset at people for concerns?

I mean, why else would they say no to free money? I'm not for screwing over players, but when you look at the facts objectively, petitions like this just breed false hope.

Tons of reasons that we could sit down and discuss if you can get past the "people are stupid" phase of your argument.

For one, up till recently it wasn't as huge of a cry on the forums, and came in small bursts of a small thread here and there. Fast forward we now have years of data of outages, downtimes and downsides of utilizing steam to warrant a move (at least a big one), and with this final push going forward. Heck the first blow wasn't until the entire HW Collectors limited edition physical copy for PC only, which annoyed a lot of Steam users, but again , given how bad the forums were / are as far as feeback, its spread out on the internet to sites like reddit, gamesfaq, steam, and other forums, many of which I'm sure go unread. Even now its still spread out but there's a higher media coverage for it, so this is why you're now seeing a LARGER response, which will probably continue to rise as long as people become aware.

The biggest issue we're facing outside of this is just how many have actually moved OFF of the forums and are on reddit, if they'd chime in here as well, since I cannot 100% say if SE bothers to read their threads, then things would definitely boom. We're now looking at a a much larger picture to which people are actually coming together for a just cause, albeit you may feel like its a lost cause but that's your personal opinion and not a substantiated statement that we should just give up and shut the thread down. Please stop calling people stupid,childish and angry when you're the only person here bashing everyone else for the intended reason of this thread lol. Thanks <3

Can we get back on topic now?

[Eli85]

Snip.

There isn't enough worth responding to here, particularly because you don't seem to understand the words I'm using at all. So I'll leave with this: you need to complain to S-E, not Steam, and any continued insistence otherwise is just a waste of time.

[LunaP]

There isn't enough worth responding to here, particularly because you don't seem to understand the words I'm using at all.

Thank you, I'll take that as you were unable to produce a logical response so the argument is over.

For future reference, if you at least try to provide additional data vs rewording the exact same statement over and over and over while continuing to shun people then we might actually be able to understand you , but you're not, you're just fighting 1 point.

So I'll leave with this: you need to complain to S-E, not Steam, and any continued insistence otherwise is just a waste of time.

But...this...is the S-E forums.....we've been doing that........I'm so lost right now LOL, PLEASE try to stay on track with what you're saying vs changing it up every other post lmao.

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

I actually don't see where this is included in their subscriber agreement without substantial creativity in interpreting them. It's also worth pointing out that you are not required to accept updates to the subscriber agreement in order to keep using Steam and associated products and services, so it would matter what version someone last accepted.

Also 1000000% this, THANK YOU for bringing this up, I forgot to mention that previously, any major scale change WILL SHOULD (since some can be shady about it) require the user to accept the agreement to, despite the initial agreement when signing up for "Policies may change over time" its still a legal requirement. Not saying this current one warrants it but in the aspect of major expacs it can. Thank you Nixxe <3

[Nixxe]

This, right here, is why purchases should never be made with Steam. But be that as it may, players affected by this bought from Steam, knowing full well (if they read the Steam Terms of Service) that this could happen one day, and many others of its kind.

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

I actually don't see where this is included in their subscriber agreement without substantial creativity in interpreting them. It's also worth pointing out that you are not required to accept updates to the subscriber agreement in order to keep using Steam and associated products and services, so it would matter what version someone last accepted.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

I actually don't see where this is included in their subscriber agreement without substantial creativity in interpreting them.

To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.

The Steam client software and any other software, content, and updates you download or access via Steam, including but not limited to Valve or third-party video games and in-game content, and any virtual items you trade, sell or purchase in a Steam Subscription Marketplace are referred to in this Agreement as “Content and Services”

As far as I can see, the quoted part has been present on the agreement since the start of Steam. So, it has been a thing always and people agreed to it.

[Nixxe]

As far as I can see, the quoted part has been present on the agreement since the start of Steam. So, it has been a thing always and people agreed to it.

I have a Steam account. Steam is currently running. You cannot use FFXIV without an internet connection.

All three criteria, two of which are optional on Steam's part, are fulfilled without me having ever launched the game via Steam.