Can we report the Baldesion Arsenal discord group?

[HyoMinPark]

(Other than Ozma, I find it really difficult for just one person to wipe all the teams, provided the 'mistake' was not intentionally done, and in such a case it is reportable)

If a random detonates a trap, it can hit more than just them. Small ones give a 1-minute Bleed and a 10-minute vulnerability stack. Large ones explode and kill players within the vicinity of it.

If a random starts pulling a bunch of trash, those that have abilities that need to be stunned/silenced/slept may not be stunned/silenced/slept and cause issues (for example, if the owls leading up to Ozma are not stunned when they start casting On the Properties of Darkness, everyone that is hit by their attack loses all their logos actions). There are also a possibility that they pull something like a Biblio, who them uses Magic Burst and potentially kills players, as they may not be aware it has been aggro'd and get hit by the AOE.


It's not about wiping an entire raid (though that is a very valid concern for any group that is planning to do Ozma) - it's also about causing unnecessary hassles and/or deaths in any fashion.

I don't think people are THAT different.
I think the major difference here is how widespread discord is being used in the different DCs, and the entailing "Us vs Them" mentality that it brings.

I disagree. NA players are not the same as JP players in their mindset, how they approach the game, how they approach content, and how they cooperate in content.

On NA, it is not normal and never has been for players to attempt to organize full BA groups within the instance. Even before the Discords existed. It's more common for players to show no interest at all; they only seem to show interest and throw a fit when premade groups show up to an instance to do the content. Otherwise, you get maybe a dozen people that go in - and they don't go past the lobby.

[xxSouxx]

If a random...

It's a given that a random would just go off on his own and do all that?
Wow.

[HyoMinPark]

It's a given that a random would just go off on his own and do all that?
Wow.

Traps are not visible until someone with Perception L finds them. Someone not in the Discord may not be cautious enough to wait for the Perception person to find the traps (nor will they be in VC to hear "All traps have been found" or "There is still a trap here somewhere"), run in, and trigger an invisible one. Some rooms always only have 1 or 2 traps in them, but their location is always different. And the element rooms leading up to AV can have 1 or 2 or even 3 in them.

It's that kind of carelessness that I think the Discords want to try and mitigate. Because, believe it or not, there are a lot of careless mistakes on NA. At least, there are on Aether.

[xxSouxx]

Traps are not visible until someone with perception finds them. Someone not in the Discord may not be cautious enough to wait for the perception person to find the traps (nor will they be in VC to hear "All traps have been found" or "There is still a trap here somewhere"), run in, and trigger an invisible one. It's that kind of carelessness that I think the Discords want to try and mitigate.

I'm sure such may have happened in the early days, but BA has been out for a while.
People know enough to stay behind the tanks and tanks stay behind the sight-ra (trap detect logos) players.
Newbies I see are so scared they wouldn't just go running on their own, and even if they did, the rest will not follow so it would just be him getting killed.

I do understand people going for the efficiencies which the discord offers and the assistance it offered in the early days.
And yet, seeing discord not as supplementary tool but as a major tool (a requirement) in content participation is something that causes alarm for me.

[HyoMinPark]

I'm sure such may have happened in the early days, but BA has been out for a while.
People know enough to stay behind the tanks and tanks stay behind the sight-ra (trap detect logos) players.
Newbies I see are so scared they wouldn't just go running on their own, and even if they did, the rest will not follow so it would just be him getting killed.

I do understand people going for the efficiencies which the discord offers and the assistance it offered in the early days.
And yet, seeing discord not as supplementary tool but as a major tool (a requirement) in content participation is something that causes alarm for me.

The problem is, is that’s on a JP data center. What you have seen is on your data center. Unless you’ve played on NA and done BA here, you are unable to speak for what it’s like on an NA data center—I do not mean this in a rude way; you simply do not have the experience to speak on it.

Do randoms know to stay behind the Perception player? You cannot say. I have seen players run ahead of them even in Discord runs, and the leaders have to remind them “Don’t do that”.

Even in full Discord premades, I have seen incidents of players making careless mistakes (i.e., pulling mobs when they weren’t a tank, aggroing roaming mobs, triggering traps). The possibility of players that enter who are not in the Discord make those possibilities higher, hence why the Discord always attempts to pull them into VC so that they can listen to callouts for AV/Ozma and avoid making careless mistakes. If the run is an Ozma prog/clear, it becomes even more important that they get into VC, because it does just take 1 person to invalidate hours worth of work, because getting ~56 people together and into the instance in and of itself can take 1~2 hours.

Most of the time, the players that go into a BA run where there was a full premade do not actively contribute to the content. They pop defense logograms for AV/Ozma (e.g., Platebearer), they hit the bosses only enough to get credit for the kill, and then they spend the rest of the time keeping themselves alive with Cure logograms, because it is hard to get them to join parties that have free spaces, so their survival is completely up to them. Some actively refuse to join parties despite the premade trying to get them into one. However, while they are using Cure L on themselves and not attacking, they are requiring the rest of the group to pick up what they are not contributing to meet the DPS check/enrage. I take great issue with players like this, as I think everyone should contribute to the content equally. This is a group effort.


I think the people in the Discords just want things to run as smoothly as possible. It’s quite possible that, like me, they don’t have the faith in the playerbases over here to risk doing a full-PUG run of this content. But I cannot speak definitively for them. I can only speak for myself, and make guesses on what I think they feel.

[xxSouxx]

The problem is, is that’s on a JP data center. What you have seen is on your data center. Unless you’ve played on NA and done BA here, you are unable to speak for what it’s like on an NA data center—I do not mean this in a rude way; you simply do not have the experience to speak on it.

I'm only sharing with you what I see around me because I don't believe that people are so drastically different.
There are strange folks who like to jeopardize runs in JP DCs, too, but it just doesn't happen all that often, and I can't believe all pug players in the NA/EU are like that.
But, as you said, I don't play in NA/EU and that is a magic word that I can't repel

I just hope the NA/EU discord community would be a little more forgiving of the non-discord community in the future.
It is an optional outside tool and various people have various reasons for not installing it.

[HyoMinPark]

I'm only sharing with you what I see around me because I don't believe that people are so drastically different.
There are strange folks who like to jeopardize runs in JP DCs, too, but it just doesn't happen all that often, and I can't believe all pug players in the NA/EU are like that.
But, as you said, I don't play in NA/EU and that is a magic word that I can't repel

I just hope the NA/EU discord community would be a little more forgiving of the non-discord community in the future.
It is an optional outside tool and various people have various reasons for not installing it.

We will just have to agree to disagree on how different players in our respective data centers are. From what I have gathered from JP servers, from reading about how they approach content and comparing it to my own experiences on Aether and how people approach content here, I have to think that NA really is quite different from JP.


The issues between the Discords users and the people who don’t use Discord tend to revolve around respecting each other, from what I have personally seen.

There are many times where arguments break out between both sides about “who owns the portals”, as well as incidents where those who do not like the Discord groups attempt to rally instances into taking portals and/or not completing the Support FATE. There are also members within the Discord who engage in these arguments, despite the Discord advocating for them to not do so, which can cause issues if the rest of the instance gets annoyed at the continuous arguing—

I was in an instance for Ozma prog once where people outside argued in /shout with a couple inside BA so much that the people outside failed to kill the Support FATE. There were a few dozen players actively standing outside of the FATE refusing to help kill it, in addition to the Support group the Discord had picked up having their own problems (apparently, someone did not bring Dispel L, which was their own failing and no one else’s—don’t rely on someone else to bring the necessary logograms; just do it yourself, is how I feel). So the BA group (which was an Ozma prog group), failed to even get to do AV. All because some felt the need to continuously argue. And I don’t agree with what either side did—those not in the Discord and those in it.


Personally, I prefer the premade method. I like the organization of it, and, as I said previously, I have concerns about full random groups becuase I have seen how bad even regular content can be when it’s full of players that don’t want to cooperate with one another (and all the Eureka instances over here can also have issues with just getting people to help spawn NMs and not AFK at the camp/do the Bunny FATE all the time—it doesn’t surprise me to think that organizing a full 56-person group for BA without Discord organization would be difficult here because of this).

I would prefer for both sides to get along, and would love to see them all work together. But I am not naive enough to believe that will ever happen. Some players want to do things their way, and there is no way to change that. NA/EU chose to make Discord the “standard” for a variety of reasons, and some players just don’t want to accept that. I can’t say why, and I won’t attempt to explain why. I don’t understand it.


I will stick to doing BA the way I prefer. All I can do is hope everything goes smoothly. I’ve yet to have someone else take a portal I’ve intended to take, but I have had friends that have had that happen to them, and I have been in runs with “snipers” before—some have gone well (usually these are just frag runs and those are hard to mess up since we don’t attempt the harder bosses) and others have not gone well (usually the AV clear/Ozma prog/Ozma clear parties—it’s common here for Support portals to be taken by solo players).

I just do not take kindly to some of the things people that don’t use Discord say about us in the premades—referring to us all as these “toxic elitists” really grates on my nerves. Just like when people accuse all people who participate in Savage as being “toxic elitists” or “wannabe tryhards”. There was a conversation several pages back from someone who has never even done BA or interacted with the Discords calling us all “toxic wannabe tryhards”, and I do have to admit, it is hard to remain silent and/or cordial with someone who clearly has so little respect for other people. I won’t deny there are some “toxic” individuals in the Discord, but they are dealt with if the Admins are made aware of them. One of the admins from the Aether BA discord server was in this very thread saying as much.


With regards to players just using Discord in general for recruitment, it’s not something limited to just BA. For NA, I know that there are Savage/Ultimate static recruitment servers (I’m in one myself), PvP servers, servers dedicated to doing older content synced—I think there’s even a Discord server out there dedicated to getting players together to do Diadem’s Emerengcy Mission. I think there’s lots of Discords out there for lots of different things, so it probably just made sense to make a Discord to attempt to organize BA, too.

[alimdia]

I'm only sharing with you what I see around me because I don't believe that people are so drastically different.

Have you seen the raid clear rates between NA/EU and JP? http://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/archives/53012555.html

The mentality between our and your players really is drastically different.