Can it still be called a "raid" anymore?

[Kuroka]

Why is it still called a "raid" when it drops you straight into a circular/square room with the boss in it? Isn't that a "trial"?

It is, they are literally only trials. I do see doing stuff like Coil is hard... but rly, its boring. IF its down to theres the boss, kill it, then i want at least 6-12 of them. Its just, plain and watered down, like way too many things nowadays...

[Nariel]

I still think the 5 first step of bahamut was perfect.

Progressing step by step was fun, you have to progress in a huge thing with punishing trash and checkpoint to fight punishing bosses. You have to learn a whole raid to go after them, getting better to go faster every time you attempt it to go further every time until you defeat the final encouter... Really miss this, Twintania will alway be in my heart for giving me that true feeling of end boss after four stage of raiding (third could have been more fun if people weren't so eager to just skip it "urr durr I want to go fast cuz I'm phonik the edge lord")... Now they're just trial with trainning wheel. Can't even have fun in savage cause I alway feel like I alredy beat this thing and have nothing more to see except some tweak and less visible AoE.

They were cool fight, some less than other but they miss something to be called proper raid.

[ReiMakoto]

Even doing M/F before progging final omega is a massive hassle. Imagine having to fight the same trash and mini bosses each week before doing the fight you actually want.

[Kalise]

Imagine doing a raid like one of World of Warcraft, just to name one Ice Crown Citadel.

If I remember correctly it was 12 boss in the same instance. Well the timer in this kind of content is useless xD

Something more akin to WoW's Naxxramas would probably make the most sense.

Where it was 14 bosses in the same instance. But 4 different paths from the start taking you down a wing that each had 3 bosses down it (Along with some Trash between)

With completing all 4 wings unlocking the "Final" path which has just 2 bosses and no trash in it (Unless you count the start of the final boss's encounter where you fought trash before the boss deemed you worthwhile to actually pay attention to)

As far as "Muh lewt!" goes, in WoW they also had it so that trash could drop loot. So it wasn't just a waste of time to clear them, because you could get some epics drop from them (Which sometimes had progression raids that were struggling actually set aside some time to just farm trash and reset the instance to farm more trash in order to try and get some of this loot to then help them for the following week's lockout)

To be fair, the main limiting factor in FFXIV's raid design is how everything is done on that timer. So you can't have deep progression of a raid because once the timer is over, that's it to re-enter you start again from the very beginning...

Even Eureka is on a timer (Albeit as a persistent zone, so you can leave and re-enter the same one with a new timer)... So the best they can do is maybe have Deep Dungeon style "Saving" of progression, where you can clear trash/mini-bosses and then save your progression after beating the boss ready to continue on from that point (Or reset and start from the beginning again to farm the boss)

[Kuroka]

To be fair, the main limiting factor in FFXIV's raid design is how everything is done on that timer. So you can't have deep progression of a raid because once the timer is over, that's it to re-enter you start again from the very beginning...

Its not, look at the deep dungoens, there is literally no reason to not make checkpoints to save, so a static can progress step by step. They surely could...

[Cabalabob]

Coil used to be a lot more raid like, you could see how the different areas connected to each other and there was somewhat more of a feeling of running a gauntlet with a boss at the end.

But the problem was, the trash pulls were just wasted time, people didn’t really care for it and would find ways to skip it entirely and just get the shortcut to the boss. E.G. sac pulling T1, enraging T2, skipping T3 entirely, so only T4 and 5 were getting done properly since they had no trash, just wave mode and boss fight.

So the devs took this as a sign, people only want to fight the boss. So in HW they cut down the chaff with Alexander and now with SB got rid of it entirely, leaving the “raid” part as a one time instanced quest to unlock the boss fights.

I agree at this point raids are just glorified trials, but it was in response to the way the community reacted to raids, so can’t really blame them for it. But I do miss that feeling of interconnectivity between the raids, even as simple as when you started T7 you could turn your camera around and see the T6 battlefield behind you.

[Laerune]

And that's exactly why all this is happening

I wish they took a page from their single player games and add puzzles etc to the raids.

[Floortank]

Trash mobs are boring. Trash pulls are boring. Why are we asking for trash pulls in 2019? If you want to do raids where you spend half an hour killing garbage for no gain, try Battle for Azeroth, they have about 12 raid wings that will leave you in ecstasy.

[Nariel]

Trash mobs are boring. Trash pulls are boring. Why are we asking for trash pulls in 2019? If you want to do raids where you spend half an hour killing garbage for no gain, try Battle for Azeroth, they have about 12 raid wings that will leave you in ecstasy.

Then how about make those trash attractive ? Make them dangerous and rewarding rather than just reduce the game to arena fight.


Or at least they should just stop calling them raid and assume doing only trial. They should stop dungeon too and just make them trial too, trash are waste of time anyway...

Lets just skip MSQ too and go boss to boss, waste of time chatting with NpC and who care about overworld, lets just make city a lobby where you can go to boss arena to win even more time. You know what ? screw those boss, lets just go to the chest they will die eventually so who care, lets go to the point and roll the credit once your character is finished.

[Jandor]

Coil and Alex certainly have Omega beat in this regard.

Trash pulls serve a purpose. Alex and especially Coil definitely had more of a sense of place and setting.

Although to be fair, Omega's story sort of makes that difficult. He's a big robot whipping up arenas for you as and when so you can fight stuff and he can watch.