Please no more Eureka!

[Reynhart]

A year ago, I suggested something, like what you've stated above and the majority of people on these forums disagreed with me saying, that if a person has only 2-4 hours daily, that's below 'casual and that an MMO is not for that person.

I don't have the same opinion as them, and, maybe some MMO are not for them, but regarding FFXIV, 2-4 hours daily give you more than enough time to burn through every PvE content, even if you're doing Savage.

So you're saying that without the relic, Eureka, with it's multiple zones, new battle systems, varied rewards, would not be able to keep people engaged for longer than a month?

Frankly, I doubt so, and, in fact, I've never stated otherwise...the thing is, without gear, any other content would also die in less than a month, except maybe PvP with its season system.

It's SE's problem when content that took 17-18 months(iirc) to develop

Not, it's not. Yoshi-P is completely free of putting ressources where he wants. Doing Eureka was important for him (He was thinking about it as early as 2.0), so he gave it the ressources. Besides, 18 months of timespan is not 18 months of full time development, and it didn't prevent any patch from being spot on on its schedule. And the participation numbers (However accurate they may be) give him satsifaction. I'm pretty sure in your work too, situations happen where you spend far more time than you should be on something unimportant, just because you want it a specific way. There could be a problem if everything else was heavily butchered as a counterpart, but losing 3 dungeons is really not that big of a deal, since people will simply do their roulette after the first time, and don't really care in what specific dungeon they will end.

Let's dive into supposition, now, shall we. Imagine that in ShadowBringers, they create a whole new content aside the Eureka-type one. This one would be cattered to casual players (according to your definiion). What reward structure do you think this new content should use, that wouldn't make any existing type of rewards irrelevant ?

[TwistedTea]

Let's dive into supposition, now, shall we. Imagine that in ShadowBringers, they create a whole new content aside the Eureka-type one. This one would be cattered to casual players (according to your definiion). What reward structure do you think this new content should use, that wouldn't make any existing type of rewards irrelevant ?

Glamour,mounts,minions,furniture,etc

Pretty much like POTD/HOH.

Diadem have a pegasus mount as a reward. Still dead.

Diadem also has/had an accessibility problem:

1. Get in through FC airship. This assumes you've an active enough FC, where the leaders/officers don't mind allocating airships for Diadem trips.

2. Public queue via Ishgard(which is dead on many servers,requires 8 people)

In this regard, Eureka is better than Diadem.

New dungeon, new casual raid/Primals (8/24 man), new items for canals of uznair, new things to gather or craft, new content for gold saucer, HoH and so on.

This will be the last time I address this. The main thrust of my argument is not that we are not getting casual content but that we are not getting casual content on the scale/depth of Eureka.

Less than 5 mins for doing Doman Enclave,weekly?

15 mins for doing Namazu quests daily?

30 mins for Custom Deliveries,weekly?

An hour or 2 for doing Hildebrand quests?

A few hours for doing Ivalice Raids in one play session?

A few hours for HOH?

Party games suite, Doman Mahjong Edition?

Anyone who thinks the additions to casual content at endgame is on the same scale/depth in terms of engagement, I'm sorry, we have nothing further to discuss.

What exactly do you want as "casual" content.

Using Eureka as a template,reduce the HP of mobs, reduce the reliance on chain killing and party play to be efficient at leveling.

Reward party play but do not punish solo play.

Someone mentioned,procedurally generated mobs. I think this would be interesting to experience but in a limited fashion.

Add in content for crafters/gatherers which can be done without combat if players choose not to engage in combat. For example, have DOH/DOLs build up the areas around the aetherytes using gathered/crafted materials from Eureka.

Now for some of those existing systems which can be incorporated into Eureka:

Reward exploration. Eureka is supposed to be an expedition right?

Add in those sightseeing vistas. Even in the short time that, I've spent in Eureka, some parts are gorgeous. It seems a waste that there's so little emphasis on exploration.

Leves

[RitsukoSonoda]

Using Eureka as a template,reduce the HP of mobs, reduce the reliance on chain killing and party play to be efficient at leveling.

Reward party play but do not punish solo play.

Care to elaborate more on this because its already as you asked in the bold part. Aside from NMs its entirely solo-able and due to the NM's being fates you can still get gold without a party many cases even when far below the fate level. Its not the fastest way to level but it works. However if everyone could level as fast in a party as they could solo then what would even be the point of making an exp party? Honestly to me it feels like you're asking for everything to be like leveling BLU on the overworld where you can easily go from 1-50 completely solo in a matter of hours.

As for the whole "there is no new casual content on the scale of eureka in stormblood" was there really any content on that scale in ARR and HW? One thing they did change was how frequently they added new 4 man duties due to the rate feeling like oversaturation.

Your main issue is you classify Eureka as non-causal content because you do not like it. Your personal rating of enjoyment of the content isn't a proper basis of this classification. Eureka is casual end game content in that everyone is free to do it at their own pace (or apparently not do it at all based on your earlier comments). A relic is not a requirement or entitlement or needed to progress in any aspect of the game. Eureka does not require premades and set strategies with the possible exception of BA however honestly unless the general quality of players has cratered since FFXI, I wouldn't see premades and elaborate strategies as a requirement on that either since even things like dynamis, limbus, etc were entirely doable with PuGs and almost nothing said in text chat other than normal basic conversation.


As I've said in other threads about various other things. If you don't like a certain content then don't do it. However do not complain about not being given things to do when the cause is your own choice and decision to not utilize everything given. There are certain activities in game I don't particularly care for. However if I'm looking for something to do and nothing else comes up I will still do it.

[Leanna]

Your main issue is you classify Eureka as non-causal content because you do not like it. Your personal rating of enjoyment of the content isn't a proper basis of this classification. Eureka is casual end game content in that everyone is free to do it at their own pace (or apparently not do it at all based on your earlier comments). A relic is not a requirement or entitlement or needed to progress in any aspect of the game. Eureka does not require premades and set strategies with the possible exception of BA however honestly unless the general quality of players has cratered since FFXI, I wouldn't see premades and elaborate strategies as a requirement on that either since even things like dynamis, limbus, etc were entirely doable with PuGs and almost nothing said in text chat other than normal basic conversation.


As I've said in other threads about various other things. If you don't like a certain content then don't do it. However do not complain about not being given things to do when the cause is your own choice and decision to not utilize everything given. There are certain activities in game I don't particularly care for. However if I'm looking for something to do and nothing else comes up I will still do it.

The problem isn't consider Eureka casual or not. Eureka is the worst of game design and simply bad content. Anemos was ok for casual players, and Pagos totally dropped make them drop. Because let's not forget what Eureka is, a sponge-mob grind, punishing and tedious, literally the only thing you do is kill the very same mobs for hours with little to no variation.

And about "However do not complain about not being given things to do when the cause is your own choice and decision to not utilize everything given.", Eureka needs more time, dedication and patience than any other content to get to the point.

"However if I'm looking for something to do and nothing else comes up I will still do it. "
Good for you if you are a conformist and you are happy with anything that is thrown at your face, people pay a sub and are in their right to demand quality content and not this lazy mess.

Devs should care about the community, listen to feedback and react, the worst community is a conformist one that doesn't care about anything.

As an example, you have Digital Extremes, devs of Warframe, they do listen to the community because they know that without community, they are over. And there is a lot of communication and respect between players and devs. SE either lives in a bubble where everything is pink and perfect, or refuse to listen.

Better content is beneficial for everyone, even for those who will conform with doing the same FATE 9000 times for a shiny stick.

[Alucard135]

people pay a sub and are in their right to demand quality content and not this lazy mess.

They listened and stopped with the lazy mess they did before, which is the previous relic quests' style.

[Leanna]

They listened and stopped with the lazy mess they did before, which is the previous relic quests' style.

Good, now they should keep listening and stop with the actual lazy mess we got.

[Alucard135]

Good, now they should keep listening and stop with the actual lazy mess we got.

I wouldn't call it actual lazy mess, since the previous style was the actual lazy mess. You might call Eureka the current lazy mess because yes, it did have some lazy design decisions in it, but it still had "lots of resources" put in it as you and others said here. So logically it can't be lazier than the previous relic style, which only reused old content.

Now they should keep listening and improve it even more!

Surely the best outcome from this in ShB would be to have a Eureka weapon as well as an outer weapon rather than one or the other and gloating over the other group?

I wouldn't object to that at all and said so many times. The previous relic design didn't really use any resources except making the cutscenes and the weapons (excluding the ARR trials). I'm only objecting to the statement that Eureka is a lazy design and the previous style, that used more than 90% old content, is not.

[Soupa]

Good, now they should keep listening and stop with the actual lazy mess we got.

Such passion. Both previous iterations of relic just reused old content to complete an objective, with the exception of the relic hydra and the relic chimera trails, almost all steps of relic just required you to redo old content. Which is fine but that means relic just becomes a passive objective you will inevitably complete along with tomestones. There’s no point to your objective that way. Eureka is 4 full zones and a public dungeon with trinkets and extra objectives scattered around for you to tackle and do and some even change your gameplay slightly permanently. (Mmmm magicite) this is content catered to a different style of player not casuals, one that relic deserves and imo should be locked behind. Eureka isent perfect but it’s miles beyond what we’ve gotten before and actually improved sub retention rates between patches compared to HWs cycle. I believe it will return this way in 5.0 with changes made to make the content more fun and magicite will likely carry over as well to make players return to pyros and hydatos.

[Metsonm]

They listened and stopped with the lazy mess they did before, which is the previous relic quests' style.

I don't get why we can't just go both ways, though. I enjoyed the old method a hell of a lot more than Eureka, for example, and feel I've now lost content I was looking forward to. Eureka and the prior relic steps are far enough removed that it's less an evolution and more a replacement.

Surely the best outcome from this in ShB would be to have a Eureka weapon as well as an outer weapon rather than one or the other and gloating over the other group?

[Awful]

They listened and stopped with the lazy mess they did before, which is the previous relic quests' style.

My issue is that it's gated behind content that's forgotten at least with the old relic you could still run the dungeons and farm tomes or do FATEs relatively easily and all soloable or you can just que into it. While you can do Anemos and Pagos for example if I got to suffer and fight mobs over and over again then shouldn't I just run dungeons and get the same thing in the end? I don't find dungeons a mess nor where the relic steps in an expansion could be obsolete with no catch up mechanic.

I have no issue with a grind but when a grind becomes obsolete and I can't undersize it and it's literally the same thing grinding mobs and light where do you draw the line? Why are the stats RNG? At least I could pick my stats with all the other relic options why not this one? I have so many questions with all this arbitrary RNG with nostalgia pandering to keep people going into Eureka when it could be gone and we might not able to undersize or do anything with it in the future, then we have Hydatos which already has its own problems as well I swear this whole relic was an experiment this expansion.