Please no more Eureka!

[Brynne]

Given that a vast majority of the 2.0 and 3.0 Relic grinds were "Just buy a bunch of X with Tomestones", there's no reason they couldn't make the new Relics still be focused heavily around "Just buy a bunch of X with Tomestones". Thus allowing people to now spam Dungeons, Trials, Roulettes, Raids, Eureka etc. In order to grind tomestones to purchase X with to advance the Relic.

I think this would be a particularly bland way to combine the content. I'd be more in favor of having a storyline for the relic wherein the items to upgrade are found within Eureka-like content but can also be purchased with tomestones if people prefer that path (and also beast tribe coins, etc). This could be done with something along the lines of "seeking a rare item, found within a mysterious land. (insert description of item and/or its lore) It's possible that others may have come across this and would be willing to trade it... for the right price of course." So the player has the option to farm the item(s) needed within Eureka-like content or grind tomestones. The story of the relic could remain intact and the different paths would be available.

For light farming, it could be about harnessing the power of the relic and/or its surrounding content. So you'd have the option of either equipping the weapon and grinding light in old content (dungeons, etc) or grinding in the new Eureka-like content.

I just really think that the relic questline could easily cater to both crowds while maintaining a consistent structure and lore.

[Kalise]

I think this would be a particularly bland way to combine the content.

It would be consistent with previous Relics though.

Where the lore was always "We need this really rare item" then it happens that Rowena, the person that has everything for sale, has the item and is willing to sell it.

It also makes things fair. If you had to purchase with Tomestones, every item, then you'd be limited to your weekly cap irregardless of which type of content you do. Which means everyone is gated the same way and as such, won't feel "Pressured" into doing the "Most efficient" content.

Which is one of the main issues with more freedom of content, is that people don't like feeling pressured into grinding the most efficient stuff, which is why there are so many complaints about 2.0/3.0 light farms because people "Spammed Trials/Tam-Tara" as it was the most efficient way of farming the light in a short amount of time.

I just really think that the relic questline could easily cater to both crowds while maintaining a consistent structure and lore.

Again, tomestone purchases are consistent. Rowena has items, you purchase items, you give items to Gerolt (Who's in debt with Rowena), Gerolt makes you a fancy weapon (To pay off his debt).

This has been consistent since HW (In ARR he wasn't in debt with Rowena, at least not heavily enough to be coerced into working on your weapon. He just wanted to make his kettles to pay her back)

There won't be two separate paths. There might be a combination of different options, new and old, but separate and equal I highly doubt it.

Note that most of my suggestion actually had a single path. One in which you buy items with Tomestones.

How you earn those Tomestones are up to you.

As far as my side comment about the stats, well, it's no different to how ARR required you to gather up a bunch of Materia to put in. How you got those materia and which materia you used was up to you. Similar thing for Crystal Sands in HW where you had a plethora of items that could be traded in for the sand, from Scrips, to Leve loot, to raid items or stuff bought with poetics or even GC seals.

As such, it's not unprecedented for multiple ways to progress a single step. It's only this Eureka relic that has a singular path. Where the ONLY way to progress it is by farming Fates or Farming Light/Logos in the relevant zones.

So, something simple, like the items you use to put the stats on can also include content specific stats such as Elemental Bonus in Eureka or extra Equipment levels in HoH is not out of the question. As it would simply be a similar thing to how ARR's materia step worked, where you just need to apply a certain amount of X, Y or Z where X is found in Dungeons/Trials/Raids, Y is found in Eureka and Z is found in HoH and where Y grants additional Elemental Bonus in Eureka and Z grants an additional bonus in HoH.

Again, it's not hard to think of things like this, because, as it happens, both relics before SB literally worked this way, wherein you COULD progress a majority of their steps in different ways.

People like to complain about being "Shoehorned into farming old content" from ARR/HW relics but as it happened, specified duties actually made up a minority of their grinds. The majority of their grind was about gathering Tomestones and trading them to Rowena.

Even some of the non-specified duties could be bypassed by just instead spending Tomestones (Such as HW's Singing Clusters or ARR's Alexandrite which either required a daily level 50/60 Roulette or purchase via Tomestones)

How you got these tomestones, the game didn't care. Where you went to farm your Light, the game didn't care.

The fact that an argument against allowing progression on the Relic from outside of "Eureka" content is "They won't do multiple paths to the same item" just boggles the mind when literally, before Eureka, that was exactly the case, outside of like 2-3 steps of each Relic.

[LaylaTsarra]

I don't think it's a particularly huge stretch in order to allow for multiple paths to a relic.

There won't be two separate paths. There might be a combination of different options, new and old, but separate and equal I highly doubt it.

[Brynne]

It would be consistent with previous Relics though.

Sure, but that doesn't mean it needs to happen.

A lot of the folks who like Eureka and dislike the previous relic progression methods have expressed discontent with grinding tomestones for relic upgrades. I remember reading that and thinking that grinding crystals or light wasn't really so different from tomestones... just a separate currency, really. I still think this is true. But it changes the feel of how the relic is progressed for them, and so I think that this tiny adjustment could do a lot to address those concerns. The items could be obtained with various currencies: crystals, tomestones, beast tribe currency, aetherpool grips, centurio seals, etc. Everyone can choose their preferred method of grinding. And while you could just make it all one currency that is rewarded from every form of grinding, it has been shown to have an impact on how people feel about the progression. That was what I wanted to get across.

It also makes things fair. If you had to purchase with Tomestones, every item, then you'd be limited to your weekly cap irregardless of which type of content you do. Which means everyone is gated the same way and as such, won't feel "Pressured" into doing the "Most efficient" content.

I dislike the weekly gating in the first place, so this is not a compelling argument to me. I see the necessity for it when it comes to content longevity, but in terms of relic progression steps, I'm not in favor. If someone wants to finish their weekly cap and then continue grinding for progress on their relic, they should be able to. People are going to feel "pressured" into "most efficient" paths regardless of how you structure this relic questline, unless ALL of the steps are tomestone-related (usually there is at least one stage that involves light grinding).

I actually assumed relic progression would be tied to the tomestones that DON'T have a weekly cap. The casual playerbase uses those tomestones for gear upgrades, since they're not getting the Savage pieces of equivalent ilvl. I'm not sure if this is how the ARR and HW relics did it, since I did not do them while they were relevant. I just assumed it'd be poetics, or the upper level uncapped tomes. I'd rather see another Eureka-like grind than using capped tomes for relic progression, honestly.

So, something simple, like the items you use to put the stats on can also include content specific stats such as Elemental Bonus in Eureka or extra Equipment levels in HoH is not out of the question. As it would simply be a similar thing to how ARR's materia step worked, where you just need to apply a certain amount of X, Y or Z where X is found in Dungeons/Trials/Raids, Y is found in Eureka and Z is found in HoH and where Y grants additional Elemental Bonus in Eureka and Z grants an additional bonus in HoH.

I think this is a great idea.

[Brynne]

Again, this time-gating only serves a purpose if trying to prevent people from feeling like they "Have" to grind content they dislike to keep up with other people working on the Relic.

You'd need to gate every step, including light grinds, in order to eliminate this problem. As long as there are multiple ways to progress, there will be a "most efficient" way to do it that people will find as soon as they can.

They could gate everything, but I'd rather they didn't. Gear progression is already gated by time. I'm fine with the relic being gated only by when each new progression step is released. It gives the players with more time to spend in the game something to work at when they've hit the other time gates.

[Chalbee]

This thread is just going in circles for 69 pages. Some people like Eureka, some people hate it. We don't know how many of each there are, and it doesn't matter because the Devs seem dead-set on this being the new template for relics. Those of us who hate Eureka either have to suck it up and do it anyway, or just say goodbye to having relics, or maybe even find another MMO.

Personally, I've chosen to say goodbye to relics. It's unfortunate, but as Lamdafish said a way back (or was it a different Eureka thread, who knows?) To get the Savage weapon, you have to do Savage, and now to get the relic weapon, you have to do whatever horrible nonsense they've cooked up for the relic. I hope they go back to the old way, or at least find a compromise between the old way and the new, but it's doubtful.

[TaiyoShikasu]

This thread is just going in circles for 69 pages.

Nice.

10charnyah.

[UnrealTai]

I agree NO more Eureka.
Its said it resembles FFXI and sorry it does NOT at all. Its boring AF. Refused to do it even for the unlocks.

[Maero]

@ shibeouya, it is not entitlement, etc... And you know for a fact that it is a minority that dislike Eureka?
Just because zones could be full that cannot be gauged on if people like it or not, some force themselves to do it for various reasons. As players have for past Relics i suppose.
Past Relics you could do on your own at your own pace and the Relic felt personal not something just tacked on to content just because.

This is all just my opinion of course

[Phileas]

In my experience up to pagos, Eureka transfers all the grinding done in the open world to a zone designed for grinding. I havent progessed past pagos because i cant think of anything worse to do with my time. Not to mention losing your mount in pagos seemed like a massive screw you after working to get it back. I want progress. Not regression.

Many people have said the later zones get better but honestly cant be bothered. Baldesions Arsenal or relic weapon is not enough of a carrot for me to endure the torture of pagos.