BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

[BillyKaplan]

I know it was sarcasm on your side, but i would love that (and many others probably too).
What people like is subjectiv after all.

Ok but why does that have to be mutually exclusive to these classes being playable in the rest of the game (mostly venting, not saying you yourself said that)? You already need to get specific skills for BLU to get through job quests, so it's not like they can't combine the learning experience and progression. And Mind Blast and Glower were made 100% obtainable on enemy kill, exactly because they were blocking job progression.
They literally have in place a system that would enable BLU (and subsequent Limited Jobs) to be DF ready, and have already made adjustments to skill acquisition towards a similar end. They can do all that, without taking anything away from the content exclusive to the Limited Jobs.

By all means, introduce classes with their exclusive content. They did it before with BRD. But on release they disproved a lot of things they said about BLU, and since have only taken steps to make BLU even more DF friendly - now it's a matter of will rather than ability.

tl;dr jobs having interesting, unique side content is not mutually exclusive with them being DF friendly and we shouldn't be fighting each other over it, but the devs.

[Lambdafish]

Ok but why does that have to be mutually exclusive to these classes being playable in the rest of the game

Because different content can be incompatible. I would much rather they go down the route of making the unique parts of the masked carnival available in the rest of the game than try to force BLU into a mold that it isn't designed for.

[BillyKaplan]

Because different content can be incompatible. I would much rather they go down the route of making the unique parts of the masked carnival available in the rest of the game than try to force BLU into a mold that it isn't designed for.

"Designed for" is an interesting point of debate. Isn't BLU part of a party in some capacity in any other FF game it appears in? And however BLU is designed right now is a decision of the Devs, one I'm firmly opposed to and would like to see changed.
And why does the "Keep BLU limited" crowd mind so much if BLU is unlocked, in a way that doesn't hurt the learning process nor the Masked Carnival?

[Lambdafish]

"Designed for" is an interesting point of debate. Isn't BLU part of a party in some capacity in any other FF game it appears in? And however BLU is designed right now is a decision of the Devs, one I'm firmly opposed to and would like to see changed.
And why does the "Keep BLU limited" crowd mind so much if BLU is unlocked, in a way that doesn't hurt the learning process nor the Masked Carnival?

My personal view is that a limited job should provide a very different experience from other classes. BLU is a perfect fit for such a job as the identity of the job relies on mechanics that are not in XIV, that being skill collection, elemental affinities, status effects, and gimmick spells (like roulette and level 5 death). The idea of the devs going ham on these ideas makes a brand new experience that would be completely neutered by forcing them into the same raid balanced meta as the other classes.

I don't mind if they open them up to dungeons in some way (though squadrons should be higher priority), but BLU or any other limited job should never be raid balanced, because it defeats the point of the content entirely.

You can dislike their implementation of BLU, it does have major flaws, but forcing them into the same hole as the other jobs does not help.

[Reynhart]

They literally have in place a system that would enable BLU (and subsequent Limited Jobs) to be DF ready, and have already made adjustments to skill acquisition towards a similar end. They can do all that, without taking anything away from the content exclusive to the Limited Jobs.

The reasoning, not necessarily the implementation, is that to be "DF ready", you must be balanced with all other jobs, but "collect jobs" like BLU (And maybe Beastmaster or Puppetmaster in the future) have to do an extra-work to earn their skills, as opposed to usual jobs who simply gain them by leveling, so they think it's not very fair to have to work more for overall the same results.

A suggestion I made somes pages ago would be for "collect jobs" to not gain anything through gear, and that their complete stats and efficiency would be tied to the skills they've collected. This way, you could be "balanced", and simply shift the extra work from "obtaining gear" to "obtaining skills". You could even have main stats tied to the skills you've learned and substats tied to the skills you've equipped (For example, equipping Mighty Guard could give +15 Tenacity for each spell you've learned), to create an ersatz of itemization.

[BillyKaplan]

The idea of the devs going ham on these ideas makes a brand new experience that would be completely neutered by forcing them into the same raid balanced meta as the other classes.

Your idea of how to do such a thing is very limited and shortsighted if you think one means the other.

forcing them into the same hole as the other jobs does not help.

I still fail to see what it takes from them.

A suggestion I made somes pages ago would be for "collect jobs" to not gain anything through gear, and that their complete stats and efficiency would be tied to the skills they've collected. This way, you could be "balanced", and simply shift the extra work from "obtaining gear" to "obtaining skills". You could even have main stats tied to the skills you've learned and substats tied to the skills you've equipped (For example, equipping Mighty Guard could give +15 Tenacity for each spell you've learned), to create an ersatz of itemization.

That would be fair, at least for leveling skills, similar to how other jobs get guaranteed drops from leveling dungeons.

[ReiMakoto]

My personal view is that a limited job should provide a very different experience from other classes. BLU is a perfect fit for such a job as the identity of the job relies on mechanics that are not in XIV, that being skill collection, elemental affinities, status effects, and gimmick spells (like roulette and level 5 death). The idea of the devs going ham on these ideas makes a brand new experience that would be completely neutered by forcing them into the same raid balanced meta as the other classes.

I don't mind if they open them up to dungeons in some way (though squadrons should be higher priority), but BLU or any other limited job should never be raid balanced, because it defeats the point of the content entirely.

You can dislike their implementation of BLU, it does have major flaws, but forcing them into the same hole as the other jobs does not help.

There is nothing stopping BLU from having a set of abilities they select from their spell book as the "Balanced raid set" and then also having the crazy unbalanced Limited stuff with the carnival too. Having a raid balanced set of abilities (which is possible with their current ability set) does not take away from having the whacky abilities for the Overworld and Carnival.

[BubblyBoar]

Yoshi-P continues to disappoint and use the same tired excuses that have been proven wrong time and time again. It's starting to become a level of arrogance that is annoying. Just like before when he said that he knew what complaint and suggestions people would have ahead of time. And yet, nothing makes any sense coming from him about the subject still.



But I'm not giving up. We got Vieras, we got male bunny suits, we can get BLU in DF and raids one day. We just gotta keep fighting until BLU can do current content or BLU is actually a real solo job.

[Lambdafish]

There is nothing stopping BLU from having a set of abilities they select from their spell book as the "Balanced raid set" and then also having the crazy unbalanced Limited stuff with the carnival too. Having a raid balanced set of abilities (which is possible with their current ability set) does not take away from having the whacky abilities for the Overworld and Carnival.

With this suggestion, you either have a job with either half a skillset, or two robust skillsets. The former would cause a raid balanced job that feels half finished, and the latter would lead to the same problem that leads to us never having a job like SMN/SCH again, in that it would be better to have a brand new job with the same ideas that BLU may bring (without the gimmicks and collecting identity), and have BLU be purely "limited", than create BLU with both the collecting and crazy aspect, and the raid balance.

Your idea of how to do such a thing is very limited and shortsighted if you think one means the other.

If you are going to say something like that, at least explain why you think that...

[ReiMakoto]

With this suggestion, you either have a job with either half a skillset, or two robust skillsets. The former would cause a raid balanced job that feels half finished, and the latter would lead to the same problem that leads to us never having a job like SMN/SCH again, in that it would be better to have a brand new job with the same ideas that BLU may bring (without the gimmicks and collecting identity), and have BLU be purely "limited", than create BLU with both the collecting and crazy aspect, and the raid balance.

I don't think you're right here. Because the appeal of the limited set is stupid gimmicks, you could create the raid set to feel robust and like a real job, because the only difference between the raid set and limited is the limited just takes gimmick skills instead of practical ones. Having a full feeling raid balance doesn't have to be mutually exclusive to having the limited half as well, because the limited half already feels disjointed and weird. I also think the SCH/ SMN comparison is a false equivalency, because the limited aspect isn't something that has to balanced in tandem to the raid set like sch and smns abilities have to be.