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[Deceptus]

Thank you so much for that, man I love it when these get brought up. And saddened.

What's sad is that these are the slides used to try to regain trust.

And yet here they are guilty of violating them time and time again.

[GenericMagus]

You think the amount of work required for WHM/DRK/MCH adjustments is anything close to what BLU would require?

OK, you keep saying adjustments, what needs adjusting for those 3?

Is it DPS, healing and tanking for all 3? They all do their respective jobs well, they're playable, all viable, have their own unique uses and contributes to whatever content you're bringing them too.

If it's game play then it's a rework you're asking for. A change in how a job plays. That's not a simple adjustment like "more potency, less cd, less/more enmity, more effects) but you're asking for their kit to be retuned and reworked.

Which is far more effort to do all 3 at once, making new skills and changing the game play for all 3, especially as 2 are a tank and healer, the hardest jobs to rework when compared to a DPS like BLU.

What are you trying to say needs adjusted for those 3?

[GenericMagus]

What's sad is that these are the slides used to try to regain trust.

And yet here they are guilty of violating them time and time again.

Yeah, it makes me happy because I feel like SE meant every word and Yoshi-P shed tears over ARR launch.

Now it's sad because in many ways they ignore what's happening in their own game, they feel they know better (see Yoshi-Ps thoughts on BLU and how unwavering they are) and the constant let down and not listening to feedback.

[Vnolan]

OK, you keep saying adjustments, what needs adjusting for those 3?

Is it DPS, healing and tanking for all 3? They all do their respective jobs well, they're playable, all viable, have their own unique uses and contributes to whatever content you're bringing them too.

If it's game play then it's a rework you're asking for. A change in how a job plays. That's not a simple adjustment like "more potency, less cd, less/more enmity, more effects) but you're asking for their kit to be retuned and reworked.

Which is far more effort to do all 3 at once, making new skills and changing the game play for all 3, especially as 2 are a tank and healer, the hardest jobs to rework when compared to a DPS like BLU.

What are you trying to say needs adjusted for those 3?

WHM - Lilies
Cure I potency/cost - 450/600
Cure II potency/cost - 700/1200
Regen potency/cost - 1050/840

Regen is more cost effective and it's an instant cast which allows for weaving or movement. Secret of the Lilies I and II proc off Cure I and Cure II casts only. It would be like having oath gauge proc off Rage of Halone for PLD.

LVL 70 skills:
PLD - Passage of Arms
WAR - Inner Release
DRK - The Blackest Night
SCH - Fey Union
AST - Sleeve Draw
WHM - Plenary Indulgence

One of those is not like the others. Remember that up until patch 4.5 PI's stacks only lasted for 10 seconds.

WHM could also do with a fix for clipping and no party-dps buffs.

DRK - Would you like some Dark Arts with that Dark Arts?

MCH - Not fun to play or requires more effort to put out the same damage as a BRD

BLU - What's its playstyle? Does it get a res? How does it interact with other jobs? How does its dps compare to other casters/other jobs?

What skills does it get? It can stun, petrify, heavy, blind, paralyze, apply DMG down and even freeze groups. It has a line AoE that has twice the range of Doom Spike. It has a donut AoE. It has two skills that drop the user's health to 0. It has a tank stance and a group heal. Diamondback, Tail Screw and Missile. Over half its skills would be need to be removed or adjusted just so it wasn't a broken job. And the cap is still at lvl 50. You can be sure the new skills with each cap would need to be fixed or removed as well.

How does it get the skills? Same method of RNG? How can we have a job where its skills are locked behind RNG? The method is changed? To what?

How do we prevent BLU without some skills from getting kicked? Prevent them from queueing until they unlock skills? There still isn't an ilvl restriction for leveling dungeons or a skill restriction for other jobs.

When synced, are they prevented from using skills like other jobs, or do they continue to have access to all skills at level 1? How do we address 4 DPS sharing the same gear?

You can't think it would require anything near what current jobs require.

[ChocoFeru]

What's sad is that these are the slides used to try to regain trust.

And yet here they are guilty of violating them time and time again.

Well, that's your opinion, not a fact.
I'm glad they made BLU a limited job, therefore they didn't violate anything from my perspective.

Does BLU need some improvements? Yes, we need more content and not "carnival only" content.
Does BLU need to be cut down into pieces, delete most of his skills and lose all it's meaning just to fit a "normal" job? Hell no.

The idea of destroying BLU's nature is just terrible. I don't think deleting new content will do any good to this game; we should encourage them to improve it instead.

[GenericMagus]

snip.

What you're asking for isn't just simple adjustments, but asking for gameplay reworks.

Lily example, I see a lot of the healing being overhealing with those potencies (and make Regen OP), or at least greater ability for WHM to solo carry.

WHM- You mean from weaving with oGCD and that WHM has a long of cast times? Why does WHM need a party DPS buff? Sounds to me you wanna homogenize it with AST. Why can't WHM pure heal? SAM and BLM allowed to pure DPS, why must a healer have to be homogenized?

DRK - What you're asking for here is a gameplay rework, in order to either cut down or remove DA from DRK. That's far more effort than simply adjusting its skills. If DA was removed DRK would just have 2 combos and a gauge dump for a DPS rotation.

MCH - Define not fun. I enjoy playing MCH and while I can see its flaws and I hope it gets reworked in ShB, you're again saying that you want another rework, which is far cry from simply adjusting Heat + potency. Of course I would like a change to Heat mechanic so it doesn't feel tacked on. Also, MCH is the hardest job to get into, but one of the easiest to play at max, as by that point you're in a 60 second unwavering rotation. It's the opposite of BRD.

BLU: Well it spams a single spell and has a DoT to upkeep and uses oGCDs. Does it need a rez to be viable? Does BLM need a rez? That's the fault of it being Limited and still its DPS is mediocre. It has good rDPS through Perculiar Light.

You serious? Despite all the cc, most of that is useless outside of trash mobs and really specific mechanics, and even then some of the CC to use deals no damage. The only consistent CC is Bad Breaths Damage down and Flying Sardines Silence. That's all for cc in most fights.

Yes a tank stance that absolutely nerfs its damage and still dies even to HM Primals if they even sneeze on it. White Wind that relies on current HP and drains your MP so you run OOM after so many casts. All those broken skills are set back with major costs (Diamondback no moving or actions for 10 seconds and MP cost) and all 3 of those are resisted by almost every boss. Like just for trash mobs they work but what job is balanced around trash mobs? Seems to me they already fixed the issue with those 3 spells by making bosses resist them fully.

No skills have to be removed. You can still have them and give then life in unsynced, where then it wouldn't matter if you break the older content.

The learning system and being unlimited are not mutually exclusive. You don't need RNG to learn skills, you can learn them 100% if SE chooses too.

Through a bar set up for being unlimited, where it bans certain options, grows and shrinks based on synced levels on amount of skills allowed and requires certain types of spells to be on it.

You can tie it to job quests needing certain skills to progress and access content in that range. Besides, whats to stop other jobs fron taking off their job stones or only using 1 or 2 of their actions? At least they have a full skill set right?

Well it seems to work fine for tanks and healers, not to mention MNK and SAM sharing same gear, all 4 accessories shared by MDPS. There doesn't need to be a change for that.

Yes, to me it will be much more work to rework 3 existing jobs and change their whole game play than it would be changing a job from Limited to unlimited.

[Dualgunner]

Does BLU need some improvements? Yes, we need more content and not "carnival only" content.

What do you mean "not carnival only"?

[GenericMagus]

Well, that's your opinion, not a fact.
I'm glad they made BLU a limited job, therefore they didn't violate anything from my perspective.

Does BLU need some improvements? Yes, we need more content and not "carnival only" content.
Does BLU need to be cut down into pieces, delete most of his skills and lose all it's meaning just to fit a "normal" job? Hell no.

The idea of destroying BLU's nature is just terrible. I don't think deleting new content will do any good to this game; we should encourage them to improve it instead.

That's your opinion as well.

No job should ever be Limited, it just doesn't work in this game. Look at the front page, all of those jobs can be deemed Limited as it doesn't follow FF tradition (BLM not exploiting elemental weaknesses and having unlimited MP).

Limited content is practically all we seen so far. A sideshow. A Gold Saucer event that doesn't give MGP. A glorified street performer. No matter what SE do, Limited jobs will always be problematic. Far more resources have to go in to a job to stop it from dying in a week, let alone thinking it will last till end of Xpac.

You're jumping to conclusions. As people here including me keep saying, having the Learning system and being a full job are not exclusive to each other. You can have both and be able to work BLU into a full job that still has those skills. Missile, Tail Screw and Doom still don't work on most bosses, so why have them if use on useless trash?

I wouldn't mind keeping the current system, yet restricting the big offenders to Unsync play where I can use the full extent of my kit, because if I can unsync that content why does it need to be balanced?

Besides, SMN identity is its own FFXIV version, and that's far more deserving to be Limited than BLU will ever be.

Also, what's new about BLU? Apart from Learn mechanic, nothing. I do the same thing as I always do, Masked Carnival is terrible and I'm stuck at level 50 without having the benefit to even run roulettes.

This'll always happen with a Limited job.

[Laerune]

Best way for Blue to work is to give them two skill type, skills that we have right now, for the limited content and skills intended for normal content.

As for role, they should be magic DPS with some support skills, like Red Mage.

[ChocoFeru]

What do you mean "not carnival only"?

I mean BLU's potential is at Carnival and nowhere else. We should get new places to play as BLU without destroying it's essence. Maybe improving the overworld to fit it or something else.

Besides, SMN identity is its own FFXIV version, and that's far more deserving to be Limited than BLU will ever be.

Sadly not. SMN is just a Warlock with a pet. I mean, it's fun to play, but it doesn't feel like a SMN at all.

Also, what's new about BLU? Apart from Learn mechanic, nothing.

Wrong. BLU spells have elements and damage types to affect different enemy weaknesses, and it has all kinds of Crowd Control skills to fit into different situations. It opens a new way to play a job instead of the generic combats where there are no weaknesses, you do the same rotation over and over again, Crowd Control skills such as stunn/silence/paralyze etc are deleted and so on.

I do the same thing as I always do, Masked Carnival is terrible and I'm stuck at level 50 without having the benefit to even run roulettes.

That's why we should fight for improvements instead of destroying a job. Carnival is not enough and we need more content to play as BLU, but we shouldn't destroy the job by converting it into a normal job.
Also, a reminder; you can do roulettes with lots of other jobs.

This'll always happen with a Limited job.

Unless we speak out and make them change stuff. I'm up for improvements, but I still think we shouldn't destroy the "Limited" Job idea.