Ishgard the most messed up area?

[Enla]

for what i saw anyway, as for me there is a bunch of things which are not right with this area, the choose made by the designer arent insight, and i just hope that Kugane will be more something than just copy of Kyôto from Sengoku period.

we dont need to be agreed, but i say my mind, i saw better heroic fantasy as creation of this kind.

that all

Bakumatsu and Meiji period actually. And you're barely there so it's not as overt.

Also you'll see when you get there. Just play the game and see how your opinion might change as you go, as Ishgard probably has the most high fantasy of any of the areas.

[Orbus]

Ishgard really is one of the best city states in the game, it was always a huge shame they relegated everything important in HW to idylshire instead.

[MistakeNot]

Hello

i would like to speak about Ishgard aréa, storyline and role in the main story.

Many thing doesnt fit with this "kingdom"

first i find the landscap too much different about the geographical logic, look like a people choose to live in the mountain in tiny place only.

Then i find very weird to take most of the code of middle age in france, with christian systeme fanatisme and crusade stuff, and trying to do a poor copy of "game of throne like" with "house"
The plot there are very predictable and not very interesting at all, also it is very cliché about middle age in europe, for me the dev just build a kind of criticism of what they dislike from europe, many christian zelote created problem in japan in the past.

The kingdom is quiet poor, only snow and some mountain, not much personnality to compare with uldah for exemple..

First of all, Ishgard isn't a kingdom. Their last king died about a thousand years ago. It is a theocracy, with the Archbishop being both the spiritual and secular ruler.

Secondly, it is far from a copy of medieval Europe. The only thing specifically copied from France would be many of the Elezen names.
Sure, it draws inspiration from the European middle-ages, but not only from there and not only from France. For example their hunts for "heretics" do bear some resemblance to the historical witch-hunts, but those did not happen during the middle-ages, but much later during the 17th and 18th centuries.

Thirdly, the ishgardians aren't involved in any crusades. There is a very long-running war against the Dravanian dragons going on, but it is war where Ishgard is mainly trying to survive the dragon attacks. The dragons can be considered to be on a kind of crusade, but a very different one than the historical crusades. The reasons for this war are revealed during the Heavensward story, but the mere fact that Ishgard has quite literally been at war for a thousand years have had a large impact on their society.

As for all the snow and ice, that is a very recent addition. Up until the Calamity five years before ARR starts most of Coerthas was a green and quite nice country. The Calamity caused large climate changes, causing Coerthas to freeze and be covered in snow and ice in just a matter of hours. Also, just like for all other zones, we are only able to visit something like half of the actual region.

There is no real criticism of Europe as such in there, but it can be considered a criticism of organized religion.

[Iscah]

Ishgard really is one of the best city states in the game, it was always a huge shame they relegated everything important in HW to idylshire instead.

Idyllshire makes sense thematically though. Where are businesses aimed at adventurers going to (want to AND be able to) set up shop? Super-conservative wary-of-outsiders Ishgard, or a free-for-all frontier town frequented by treasure-hunters and explorers?

I think they basically had to create Idyllshire so their endgame hub would make sense in the lore.

[Johaandr]

Yeah its like using shirogane castle house on the goblet. Nothing astethic truly fits.

[Ibuki-]

On my own account, I actually like heavenward story the most.

[Edax]

Idyllshire makes sense thematically though. Where are businesses aimed at adventurers going to (want to AND be able to) set up shop? Super-conservative wary-of-outsiders Ishgard, or a free-for-all frontier town frequented by treasure-hunters and explorers?

I think they basically had to create Idyllshire so their endgame hub would make sense in the lore.

Except Idyllshire is at the extreme end of the world, far far away from any conventional mass transit apart from expensive aethernet rides. If they set up in the Sea of Clouds with an airship terminal, it would hardly mean that Ishgard would stop them, they barely control a fraction of that territory.

I'm pretty sure noble houses and political schemes didn't originate from Game of Thrones.



No they didnt come, but they really looks like and sounds like a symbol of missing imagination to setting political situation, i think there were more way to build this politics aspect than just with "house" like game of throne. To brand your univers and make it different from other, you have to avoid to take too much code which refer too some other saga or historic time. For exemple, i dont like Limsa Nomisa, but i never feel there "i m in Pirate of Carreabean"
Also there is no need to take a holy city to justifiy crusade, crusade were also used to purify the heretic in central europe, Russian from old time did crusade against teutonic for example.


Ishgard is a problem for me cause it is too much close whide from real historic stuff, and that is disturbing, maybe ppl here like Isghard cause they never focused on history or that not their first interest, so they can live this part as something new, but for me who read alot about medieval time, i say it is too much close from, and i phrase a criticisme of those design choice. Beside final fantasy always use to be to create proper univers who are really far from our world , current or past.

Be inspire is one thing, but do "look like" it is bad.
Here in the name of npcs sounds like old french name, in their deisgned armor, place or stronghold, i dont see anything original, i just see a look like. Also word has their mean, using crusade is not insight, crusade refer to one period, one moment, and one phenomen in history, take it and use it to describe a story in fantasy game, i dont find very clever, it is like for Uldah we get some word around Djihad, and you agree, today using this word would be suspicious, because of the current situation, but why use "crusade" which was also same bunch of maddness and crime, is more tolerable? Of course other fantasy game used this word but their univers was so far from what we know that it made less probleme for me. Here we have crusade, inquisitor, archevêque, come on where those guy come from? i dont want to play french medieval simulator. (joking, but you see what i mean) is it too hard to just create something different?
(0)

I generally oppose this idea. I love it when Final Fantasy actually pulls from history as an inspiration. When writers go FULL Fantasy, the world's are often poorly written and realized and the story often struggles to say anything meaningful when there's no real life analog to pull on. This is why I don't like garlemald, it's "generic fantasy bad guy".

You take one look at this guy and the moment you ask "How does he go to the bathroom?" and the immersion is ruined. And he probably bangs his head on the ceiling everytime he walks through a door. This is what happens when you let the "fantasy" elements completely take over. The writers and designers don't have time to make the fantasy "real".

[Seraph522]

I generally oppose this idea. I love it when Final Fantasy actually pulls from history as an inspiration. When writers go FULL Fantasy, the world's are often poorly written and realized and the story often struggles to say anything meaningful when there's no real life analog to pull on. This is why I don't like garlemald, it's "generic fantasy bad guy".

You take one look at this guy and the moment you ask "How does he go to the bathroom?" and the immersion is ruined. And he probably bangs his head on the ceiling everytime he walks through a door. This is what happens when you let the "fantasy" elements completely take over. The writers and designers don't have time to make the fantasy "real".

I mean, the Garlean Empire has pretty clear historical roots as well. It's a reference to the Roman Empire, specifically: republic turned empire under one man's rise to prominence, tendency to subjugate large swaths of territory and a generally condescending attitude to their populaces, even as they recruit large numbers of them to serve their military, and so on. Heck, the more recent patch's revelations hint at the idea that there is a cultic view of the Emperor, driving near outright worship. Not to mention the other similarities to other tyrannical regimes in the past.

And yes, the armor is ornate and over the top and doesn't make a lick of sense in terms of real world armor, but the same can be said about pretty much every major group in the game. Aymeric wouldn't have any easier of a time relieving himself in that outfit he always seems to be wearing.

Note that this doesn't mean I don't appreciate the historical roots of Ishgard's portrayal; I think they did an excellent job with that. But the Garlean Empire has similar historical roots; their questionable portrayal at times lies more with how they're presented at certain points than their historicity or lack thereof.

[Kidria]

While you're free to think what you will, OP, it's kinda silly to say such strong words of dislike toward a zone and game history you've yet to experience and get to know. Western Coerthas is such a tiny slice of what's actually going on in Ishgard proper. Aesthetically speaking it has a nice blend of 'historic' and fantasy to me, but definitely try to not think so harshly when you actually step foot in said content. You kinda set yourself up for disappointment if you think so badly of it before you even get there.

[Edax]

I mean, the Garlean Empire has pretty clear historical roots as well. It's a reference to the Roman Empire, specifically: republic turned empire under one man's rise to prominence, tendency to subjugate large swaths of territory and a generally condescending attitude to their populaces, even as they recruit large numbers of them to serve their military, and so on. Heck, the more recent patch's revelations hint at the idea that there is a cultic view of the Emperor, driving near outright worship. Not to mention the other similarities to other tyrannical regimes in the past.

And yes, the armor is ornate and over the top and doesn't make a lick of sense in terms of real world armor, but the same can be said about pretty much every major group in the game. Aymeric wouldn't have any easier of a time relieving himself in that outfit he always seems to be wearing.

Note that this doesn't mean I don't appreciate the historical roots of Ishgard's portrayal; I think they did an excellent job with that. But the Garlean Empire has similar historical roots; their questionable portrayal at times lies more with how they're presented at certain points than their historicity or lack thereof.

The Garlean Empire has their founding origin from being outcasts. Carthage has such an origin since they were founded by the survivors of Troy, but Rome has no such origins. The Roman Empire (the first one) weren't really revanchists either. And given how we learn that the Garlemald was founded by a cultist Ascian who abandoned it to cause chaos for the "evilz", they seem more like fantasy bad guys then having any historical inspiration. I guess the United States has some origins with outcasts given the Puritans were escaping persecution and founded Boston, but their story pretty much disappears before the Revolution. How many cults have formed Empires in history? I can't think of any.

Yeah, I don't like Aymeric's armor either, it's so bulky and large and he still got taken out by a kitchen knife. Right through where the thickest part of the armor should be. I was laughing so hard when that happened.