Ishgard the most messed up area?

[Kazhim]

I'm pretty sure noble houses and political schemes didn't originate from Game of Thrones.



No they didnt come, but they really looks like and sounds like a symbol of missing imagination to setting political situation, i think there were more way to build this politics aspect than just with "house" like game of throne. To brand your univers and make it different from other, you have to avoid to take too much code which refer too some other saga or historic time. For exemple, i dont like Limsa Nomisa, but i never feel there "i m in Pirate of Carreabean"
Also there is no need to take a holy city to justifiy crusade, crusade were also used to purify the heretic in central europe, Russian from old time did crusade against teutonic for example.


Ishgard is a problem for me cause it is too much close whide from real historic stuff, and that is disturbing, maybe ppl here like Isghard cause they never focused on history or that not their first interest, so they can live this part as something new, but for me who read alot about medieval time, i say it is too much close from, and i phrase a criticisme of those design choice. Beside final fantasy always use to be to create proper univers who are really far from our world , current or past.

Be inspire is one thing, but do "look like" it is bad.
Here in the name of npcs sounds like old french name, in their deisgned armor, place or stronghold, i dont see anything original, i just see a look like. Also word has their mean, using crusade is not insight, crusade refer to one period, one moment, and one phenomen in history, take it and use it to describe a story in fantasy game, i dont find very clever, it is like for Uldah we get some word around Djihad, and you agree, today using this word would be suspicious, because of the current situation, but why use "crusade" which was also same bunch of maddness and crime, is more tolerable? Of course other fantasy game used this word but their univers was so far from what we know that it made less probleme for me. Here we have crusade, inquisitor, archevêque, come on where those guy come from? i dont want to play french medieval simulator. (joking, but you see what i mean) is it too hard to just create something different?
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[Iscah]

Regarding Elezen names - they are heavily French-derived, but the odd thing with naming conventions in this game is that they basically ignore the setting and are completely linked to races. Hyur and Elezen have been living together in Gridania for centuries, and yet there is no "Gridanian identity" to names. Elezen continue to use faux-French names, and Midlander Hyur use medieval Anglo-Saxon/Celtic/Briton names.

And even in Ishgard itself - the majority of the population is Elezen so again most of the names seem French, but mixed into that we have names like Hilda, Symme and Joye, and they're just as Ishgardian as the others.

Meanwhile over in Ul'dah, a completely different culture with a different racial mix, the local Midlanders are still using the same sort of names as their Gridanian counterparts.



And in the end, even if the setting is derived from medieval France, it's the high-fantasy-quest story and characters that make Heavensward a really enjoyable part of the story.

Also word has their mean, using crusade is not insight, crusade refer to one period, one moment, and one phenomen in history, take it and use it to describe a story in fantasy game, i dont find very clever

The Crusades are a specific historical phenomenon, but the word has come to have a more general meaning as well. A crusade (note the lack of capitalisation) can be "any vigorous, aggressive movement for the defense or advancement of an idea, cause, etc."

In any case, none of the actual Crusades were fought against dragons, so it seems far more like a high fantasy setting than borrowing from history here.

Or perhaps you've done so much reading on these subjects that you're seeing parallels the writers didn't even know they were making?

And again, if you are only in ARR, wait until you've actually completed Heavensward (and also Dragonsong, which is the first arc of endgame quests after completing Heavensward MSQ) before trying to argue what the story resembles. This is just the opening chapter.

Also, I'm not entirely certain, but I think Ishgard is primarily defensive towards the dragons rather than offensive. There are hunters, and fortified outposts, and the inquisition (which honestly we barely even hear from as we move further into Heavensward), but largely they seem to stay in the city and make sure their cannons are in working order.

Also there is no need to take a holy city to justifiy crusade, crusade were also used to purify the heretic in central europe, Russian from old time did crusade against teutonic for example.

Except you specifically equated the fanatics to "Muslims" in one of your earlier posts as an example of why it was copying the Crusades.

Here we have crusade, inquisitor, archevêque, come on where those guy come from?

Arche-what? Sorry, I've never seen that term used in the game. Or out of it. Are you playing the game in a language other than English?

(Also, blame Monty Python and my lack of detailed history knowledge, but mostly I do expect the Spanish Inquisition....)



PS. If you are writing a book and want other people to read and enjoy it.... please use more full stops and line breaks. And less run-on sentences joined with commas. It it seriously hard to read your posts. I have to concentrate.

If I was trying to read a book written like this, it wouldn't matter how brilliantly original the setting was, because I would have given up long before I read enough to understand the ideas behind it.


PPS. Universe has an "e" at the end.

[Ceridwenae]

Arche-what? Sorry, I've never seen that term used in the game. Or out of it. Are you playing the game in a language other than English?

(Also, blame Monty Python and my lack of detailed history knowledge, but mostly I do expect the Spanish Inquisition....)



PS. If you are writing a book and want other people to read and enjoy it.... please use more full stops and line breaks. And less run-on sentences joined with commas. It it seriously hard to read your posts. I have to concentrate.

If I was trying to read a book written like this, it wouldn't matter how brilliantly original the setting was, because I would have given up long before I read enough to understand the ideas behind it.


PPS. Universe has an "e" at the end.

Although I agree, I have to say I don't think OP's first language is English (I'm sure it's French, tbh, and that's what language they'll play the game in). They also seem fairly passionate about their take on the subject matter which may present itself in hurried postings. Benefit of the doubt on this.

.. just did a quickie search on the internet, and archevêque is archbishop. So clearly, it's a direct reference to the Archbishop of Canterbury. Yes.

[Kazhim]

Regarding Elezen names - they are heavily French-derived, but the odd thing with naming conventions in this game is that they basically ignore the setting and are completely linked to races. Hyur and Elezen have been living together in Gridania for centuries, and yet there is no "Gridanian identity" to names. Elezen continue to use faux-French names, and Midlander Hyur use medieval Anglo-Saxon/Celtic/Briton names.







The Crusades are a specific historical phenomenon, but the word has come to have a more general meaning as well. A crusade (note the lack of capitalisation) can be "any vigorous, aggressive movement for the defense or advancement of an idea, cause, etc."

In any case, none of the actual Crusades were fought against dragons, so it seems far more like a high fantasy setting than borrowing from history here.

Or perhaps you've done so much reading on these subjects that you're seeing parallels the writers didn't even know they were making?

And again, if you are only in ARR, wait until you've actually completed Heavensward (and also Dragonsong, which is the first arc of endgame quests after completing Heavensward MSQ) before trying to argue what the story resembles. This is just the opening chapter.

Also, I'm not entirely certain, but I think Ishgard is primarily defensive towards the dragons rather than offensive. There are hunters, and fortified outposts, and the inquisition (which honestly we barely even hear from as we move further into Heavensward), but largely they seem to stay in the city and make sure their cannons are in working order.





Except you specifically equated the fanatics to "Muslims" in one of your earlier posts as an example of why it was copying the Crusades.





Arche-what? Sorry, I've never seen that term used in the game. Or out of it. Are you playing the game in a language other than English?

(Also, blame Monty Python and my lack of detailed history knowledge, but mostly I do expect the Spanish Inquisition....)



PS. If you are writing a book and want other people to read and enjoy it.... please use more full stops and line breaks. And less run-on sentences joined with commas. It it seriously hard to read your posts. I have to concentrate.

If I was trying to read a book written like this, it wouldn't matter how brilliantly original the setting was, because I would have given up long before I read enough to understand the ideas behind it.


PPS. Universe has an "e" at the end.

I m not english and my book wont be in that langage so you dont need to worry about phrase and text i do in my own langage, i try to express myself best in english but i m not a pro, sorry

also if i said muslim that was for the joke, cause they are just replace by dragon and dragon adorator, draw as fanatic in the game, as crusader saw muslmim like fanatic or heretic.

no i play the game in french, and as french i m annoying to see such copy like poor from middle age, cause it is nothing else, a copy like, i d prefer they do something more global and iconic, than just take gothic architectur , name and crusade$

[Iscah]

Forgot to reply to this earlier...

also if i said muslim that was for the joke, cause they are just replace by dragon and dragon adorator, draw as fanatic in the game, as crusader saw muslmim like fanatic or heretic.

It's still not a fair comparision to make. The Crusaders and the Ishgardians might both be in a war against "heretics", but there were other real-world groups seen as heretics - as you pointed out yourself. So you can't equate the in-game heretics and real-world Muslims just based on that, when there isn't any other parallel between them.



Also, is it possible that the French translation of the game is drawing on more direct French-history references than the English translation? Or even just as an effect of translating concepts? eg. Playing in English, I would never connect "Archbishop Thordan" as being a French-inspired element. But evidently you did from the French term.

[Kazhim]

Forgot to reply to this earlier...



It's still not a fair comparision to make. The Crusaders and the Ishgardians might both be in a war against "heretics", but there were other real-world groups seen as heretics - as you pointed out yourself. So you can't equate the in-game heretics and real-world Muslims just based on that, when there isn't any other parallel between them.



Also, is it possible that the French translation of the game is drawing on more direct French-history references than the English translation? Or even just as an effect of translating concepts? eg. Playing in English, I would never connect "Archbishop Thordan" as being a French-inspired element. But evidently you did from the French term.

Maybe, i dont make equate, but i m bored to see "crusade" stuff in all fantasy tale that i read or play.
Ok there is one book where we see Jihad, but that one and lonely and maybe best book ever made about arabian and middle east culture,; Dune.
However Jihad is still not over present in the main story of the saga.

While crusade, when we know on what it refer to, historically, it would be insight to not take again those word and code who belong to a specific period. Archi bishop, inquisitor, crusader, should be take off from heroic fantasy to be replace by something more original. All major author in heroic fantasy book never use those, Robbin Hobbs, Tolkien, the author of Narnia, and i skip many of other.

So for me i expect than an heroic fantasy give me journey, and not recall me bad stuff from european history.

also, it could be better if they did an effort to manage this kingdom in a real role, and identity.