SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now

[Tsumdere]

Actually it would be that bad because of how it'd have to be coded. If it was any other job with a linear progression path for spells and abilities, then it'd be doable. It's because of that whole "going out and learning spells" feature works on a mechanical level that is what really bars Blue Mage from DF content, and the only way they can get that DF wish is if they undo all of it and make it a linear progression job like all the others.

On top of that, there's also the player group factor. "Oh, you don't have the spell X? *Vote kick*". Smart programmers know to prep for the worst from their users, which is why that's the main argument that's been publicly provided in regard to the matter.

This is applicable to all jobs. Vote kicking people from dungeons is not a BLU-only thing and neither is it bad. There is absolutely nothing wrong with kicking someone who does not even bother to do the job quests (or in case of BLU, get their spells). All of the spells outside of primal spells are easy to get, and drop rates can be adjusted. No one is strong arming SE to keeping primal skill drops at 5%. They could just as easily make it 50% or 100% like they did with Mind Blast and Glower if they do not want BLUs to be stonewalled by DF/PF.

It could be something as simple as a quest that checks to see if you have x, y, and z skills. If not, you don't finish the quest. The reward from the quest is being able to progress freely in DF and higher levels. Besides, they did it for Shield Lob/Tomahawk and the Hall of the Novice, they can do it for BLU skills.

The current system is a piss poor way of trying to police the community instead of letting them police themselves.

[ReiMakoto]

That's, like, your opinion, man.

You're concerned with a job you can "main". Well you can't "main" Miner, or can you? You can't take Miner out into savage fights, but you can do quite a lot with Miner, can't you? Blue Mage isn't something you can use for raiding, and so you're upset, because you can't use it in the content that you want to use it in. That doesn't mean it's been implemented poorly, it means it's not been implemented in the way you wanted.

Were you also so unhappy with Hunts, or custom deliveries? Because it's not that much different currently, but it promises a lot more in the future.

I got through 4.0's story in a couple of days, does that mean it's equal to Blue Mage? Lakshmi and Susano Extreme are also things I dealt with quickly. In fact a number of people I know didn't complete blue mage in 2 days. In fact I'm the only one I really know that did, and rather than complain that it took me 2 days, I simply want more. More skills to learn. More masked carnivale challenges. And yes, eventually a higher level cap with more primal skills to farm, which I'm fine with happening later.

You're right, it hasnt been implemented the way i like. But the thing with miner is a very false equivalency, miner isnt a class that functions in battle content to an almost balanced degree. Also your example of the msq is also poor, the msq is the vector by which we do repeatable content. BLU cannot do repeatable content, it can do its own masked carnival that is done in less than a week. After youve done that, theres nothing. You brought up maining mining, but its more of a case of maining lord of verminion. It doesnt interact and it doesnt provide anything of worth, and as someone who loves BLU, (to the point ive cosplayed it at comicon) i find this unacceptable. If you are implementing a class that participates in battle content, it should participate on the same level as the other battle jobs, drk doesnt behave like traditional drk, smn doesnt behave like traditional smn, rdm doesnt behave like traditional rdm, so why should BLU, which has the least consistency in how it "should" be throughout all of FF be pigeon holed to behave a certain way?

[Lambdafish]

You're right, it hasnt been implemented the way i like. But the thing with miner is a very false equivalency, miner isnt a class that functions in battle content to an almost balanced degree.

Fisher is a better example than Miner. It even has its own endgame content in the form of big fishing. Just because it is "battle" content doesn't mean that BLU needs to conform to what other jobs do, nor does it make it any less a unique piece of content. Like these other pieces of content, BLU will expand and evolve. If you want to treat it like a regular job then remember that when WAR was the same age that BLU is, it was a really really bad job.

[ReiMakoto]

Fisher is a better example than Miner. It even has its own endgame content in the form of big fishing. Just because it is "battle" content doesn't mean that BLU needs to conform to what other jobs do, nor does it make it any less a unique piece of content. Like these other pieces of content, BLU will expand and evolve. If you want to treat it like a regular job then remember that when WAR was the same age that BLU is, it was a really really bad job.

But warrior was still able to participate in current content, which is a steps above what blu currently has. Also i entirely agree with you that blu is a totally unique piece of content. I just dont believe that making it unique was worth the cost. Also i dont subscribe to the opinion that because something could be better in the future that it should be justified now, this is the same reason that despite mch being my favourite class ive been playing drk most of the expansion, because promises that mch could be fixed is not enough to keep me playing. Similarly promises that blu content could be "better" in the future isnt enough when i fundamentally believe that the fact that blu cant use df or raid makes it worthless. Fisher has its own end game, gatherers have their own endgame, crafters have their own end game, all of which link into the standard end game of other classes. BLU doesnt do any of this. And the fact it it performs similarly to a dps doesnt help things as i just dont understand the arguments for keeping it limited at this point

[Lambdafish]

But warrior was still able to participate in current content

Thats because its part of the main job line. It's not a different kind of content, which is where the comparison to DoL and DoH come in.

Also i dont subscribe to the opinion that because something could be better in the future that it should be justified now

Thats not an unfair opinion, but the idea of limited jobs has been a thing for less than half a content patch, I don't really think thats enough time to write off the entire concept. The devs are as new to this idea as we are, let them gather feedback and shape the job into something that resonates with everyone. I am of the belief that the reason that we got it in 4.5 instead of 5.0 was so that they could refine it in time for the 5.X series

And the fact it it performs similarly to a dps doesnt help things as i just dont understand the arguments for keeping it limited at this point

Its similarity to a DPS job is the least interesting thing about BLU, let's not remove everything else (elemental weaknesses, skill collection, gimmick spells) to make the argument that its only a DPS. I'd rather they expand everything else to differentiate it from other jobs.

[ReiMakoto]

Im on mobile atm so replying is hard. Basically i wanted to say you didn't address what i considered to be my main points, that the end game of blu currently doesn't justify its current cost. Sure its new and the devs are just as green with this content as us, but havimg a job that doesnt fit in with the rest of the end game doesnt justify its existence, regardless of how "fun" it can be. Running arr raids at min ilvl can be fun but it doesnt change the fact its the niche of niche content.

To go onto your point of elemental weaknesses they are for all intents and purposes pointless, they are a minor difference to say the most. Ill admit skill collection is interesting, but the amount of skill repetition makes it less so, id rather be forced to go out and collect a balanced set of skills than just collect a list of skills that are functionally identical but with different element. And finally for gimmick spells, well they exist on a lot of jobs already, sleep, binds, silences, titan egi, ver cure. All of these are examples of gimmicks that dont pan out in most content. Having these gimmicks doesnt justify BLU in its current state

[MorbolvampireQueen6]

Lets be honest they only did it because blue mages could wipe out a entire army in pvp it wasn't about role issue it was to keep it out of pvp

[Freyt]

Thats because its part of the main job line. It's not a different kind of content, which is where the comparison to DoL and DoH come in.

Someone gets it. I'm not sure why it's so hard for some to understand.

[ReiMakoto]

Someone gets it. I'm not sure why it's so hard for some to understand.

We understand its not a main line job. We're upset its not a main line job, because unlike other "jobs" in the game, it provides nothing but giggles for a few days. Thats okay for some people, some people don't care about BLU. But for people who want to main it, its a kick in the teeth. The job you've wanted for years is lord of verminion vs literally anything else thats useful. To bring back an example I gave months ago, imagine if bard wasn't in the game, then they added bard as a limited job that could only use the perform action, and in limited job fashion, if you made a premade, your bard using perform could play music to give out buffs and stuff. Then the justification was: We're staying true to bard, theres no possible way we could implement bard and be true to what an FF bard is. People would be upset, why couldn't bard say, use a bow, and cycle through ogcd songs to give out buffs, and fit the ffxiv combat system rather than adhering to some weird other standard

[Shurrikhan]

Thats because its part of the main job line. It's not a different kind of content, which is where the comparison to DoL and DoH come in.

Someone gets it. I'm not sure why it's so hard for some to understand.

When the only thing providing the mechanical or categorical "newness" is doing the same thing others do but simply onto either different mobs and/or with less in-practice complexity, it's neither something along the lines of a DoL or DoH, nor is it a main job. It's the not-yet-remotely-fleshed-out emaciated abandoned cousin of the prior, or the mere beginnings or vestiges of the latter. Either case is inadequate by any perspective except that of one-off side-content, i.e. a GS game with its every element of actual gameplay copied over from other systems and thus made diverse solely by what it lacks...