I wish Gunbreaker would be a DPS class.

[Hakuro89]

Especially when a lot of the DRK storyline is about NOT being an edgelord.

Let's be real, most of the 50-60 story felt like a Disney movie. There were dancing Moogles and everything.

[frostmagemari]

Let's be real, most of the 50-60 story felt like a Disney movie. There were dancing Moogles and everything.

Mhmm, and the resolution to the 30-50 was proving that you weren't going to be a broody edgelord.

[Jandor]

class changes down to a core would change that. Playing the shiny new class isn't always the answer for having fun in a game.

Same could be said for DPS, you don't need new jobs, just massive core changes to existing jobs. Oh hi there MCH.

The main issue that I have with tanks currently though and why people probably play them less is they are fundamentally flawed currently <snip>. Also because it's not as fun to them. Make tanks more fun.

What fundamental flaws? Tanks are fun, I like tanking, don't be messing with the role in order to appeal to people who don't want to do it.

[Flatopia]

quote

I agree on a few things. While a new job isnt the end all answer to making the game feel fun, for some people, myself included, a lot of fun is mastering a single job and every expac feels like a fresh start for not only your prior favorite role but also whatever is new. Especially so if it’s your role. I love tanking, but SB made the tank I loved the most feel kinda poopy (DRK) so I’m looking forward not only to DRK, WAR, and PLD changes but to see how the introduction of GUN will shake things up.
That alone is worth it. Many people like tanking in all flavors, or even a specific flavor, but they still want more. It’s not the end all answer, but it adds variety past the people that will main it. Maybe gunbreaker will get some crazy utility with another job or something. It’s interactions as a whole are going to be the fun part of adding jobs.

Also uh, “fundamentally flawed” in what way? As in they play too similar? Or maybe the balance isn’t really right? Because that doesn’t seem any more inherently flawed than other roles.
And I see the whole “intimidating” thing a lot, it really isn’t after the initial nerves- mostly because tanking is the easiest role, and I’d wager that was intentional to make new players feel comfortable faster. So long as you start low and worl up the ladder of leveling and getting gear, you’ll at least be playable lmao. People are honestly pretty nice to new tanks because of this. Just don’t jump potion forward without practice. I started not only tanking, but MMOs in 14 so I get the feeling, but really it’s honestly pretty simple and nice for new players.
And the gear aspect is true but so it is for every job.

[Shurrikhan]

Same could be said for DPS, you don't need new jobs, just massive core changes to existing jobs. Oh hi there MCH.

What fundamental flaws? Tanks are fun, I like tanking, don't be messing with the role in order to appeal to people who don't want to do it.

Isn't that what you just suggested for DPS?

Not all changes that attract new devotees for a given job or role will detract the existing ones. Just as not all changes will manage to attract/retain either...

In the case of tanking especially, there are huge lines of things to potentially add that wouldn't necessarily diminish what little currently goes into performing the role.

[Jandor]

Isn't that what you just suggested for DPS?

Not seriously no, it was a rather glib response to the idea that tanks could or should be happy with sweeping changes to their existing jobs rather than getting new ones.
I specifically mentioned machinist as it's an example of making large changes to an existing job backfiring in terms of player interest.

In the case of tanking especially, there are huge lines of things to potentially add that wouldn't necessarily diminish what little currently goes into performing the role.

I've noticed you make some interesting suggestions in the past, but for the most part people who complain about tanks being boring or broken invariably want one of two things to happen. Either they want them to be more like the melee DPS jobs with a more complex damage rotation, or they want to up enemy damage and nerf tank damage into the ground.
I'm not keen on either idea.

[Nedkel]

Isn't that what you just suggested for DPS?

Not all changes that attract new devotees for a given job or role will detract the existing ones. Just as not all changes will manage to attract/retain either...

In the case of tanking especially, there are huge lines of things to potentially add that wouldn't necessarily diminish what little currently goes into performing the role.

Most of the suggestions i read about tanks is just plain asking to make them easier and dumber to play.
Delete enmity, make it granted, more dmg, less key stroking, stronger cds etc etc. None of which will benefit the gameplay, just make it flatter.

[Dralonis]

Same could be said for DPS, you don't need new jobs, just massive core changes to existing jobs. Oh hi there MCH.



What fundamental flaws? Tanks are fun, I like tanking, don't be messing with the role in order to appeal to people who don't want to do it.

I also mentioned DPS and gave an example of the current situation I am in with melee DPS. I was just saying that a new class shouldn't determine if you quit or stay playing a game, not that we don't need a new tank to mix up the tank meta. Heck, in WoW, I played the same 2 classes for over 8 years for the most part. however, we had more customization options. He made it sound like "Well, if we don't have a new tank, then everyone will quit tanking!" Which is a wild accusation.

Maybe saying fundamental flaw is a bit drastic, but the flaws I consider are a bit varied. one is down to how aggro is a group thing ,which was essentially implemented as a bandaid fix to help out new tanks with stronger parties, but now used at max level so it allows tanks to focus on DPS more and that they don't really need to change much for most situations to where aggro is nothing and just shirk all the time. Shield oath is used few and far between after you gain your initial threat, tank rotation is generally barely used unless you die or healers are focused on raising people and want to help them on mana, something to that effect.

I for one think MT's should be in shield oath and they should make Shield oath USEFUL as well as other tank stances need to have more reliance on it, shield oath just needs it the most. Give tank stance only utility,certain skills, reduce damage by only 10/15% instead of 20% so the difference between the damage isn't as much etc. Tanking being fun is also subjective. You may have fun with it, but quite a lot of others may not and with changes to it, they may, as well as you may like it more with the proper changes. It's also intimidating to a lot of players in general. It's not always the fact that they hate tanking or don't want to, but simply don't want to "be the bad one" for not being in DPS stance and DPSing since their gear isn't good enough and such. I've seen a lot of tanks get yelled at and discouraged who are new as well and people who are mediocre tanks at 70 then people just losing threat since they don't build up enough like in 24 man since they are told to mostly be in DPS stance that they haven't gotten a feel of their medium or know their limits as well as under geared.

The way you tank depends much more on your gear than DPS. Healers too, but you just may be DPSing less and to a lesser extent than weaker geared tanks. This part isn't a flaw, just different and people aren't used to the learning curve tanks have to them. however, they could want to make it less of a curve so people can pick it up a bit easier and want to tank more or be more interested in doing so.

Also, it's kinda on them because of how they designed it. Just like they don't like tanks focusing on DPS, as well as I believe role actions didn't pan out well and we needed them all for some classes, so they just gave us all those skills. They clearly don't like the direction for a lot of classes in SB and their focus,just like they took STR off tank accessories, people outraged and were using gear from the previous xpac just for more STR, now crafted rings is BIS. Clearly, they didn't want this but figured they'd bandaid fix it probably until these 5.0 changes. When this was addressed at the Fanfest, they even said "we don't want you focusing on DPS anyways and will be addressing it in a future live letter." So, I'm expecting a massive overhaul. Unless they botch it and I put too much faith into them designing classes the way they want and don't get broken by the player base. Sorta why I wish we could beta test these class changes. then there's also just DRK's in general which they just messed up with them and made Warriors the only class that matters. Only half joking on that part. Warriors are just too good.

[EdwinLi]

Just watch this video to sum up everything about all Job role....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwQf6H7ESo4

[kikix12]

Double standards? That's an easy term to throw around. No, my standard is the one set by the game and it's own cross role system.

No, it's double standard. The game sets three roles.

Tank, healer and DPS. There is no "melee DPS" role, just like there is no "disciple of magic" role. Those are categories WITHIN a role ("disciple of..." is a category across roles...).

"Melee/Ranged/Caster DPS" are a type of DPS. Not a role. Don't believe?! Here. You can clearly see that they fall under a general role of DPS.
It's obvious that tanks and healers don't have such type distinction...seeing as they have only ONE type currently. I can assure you that as soon as they'll get at least two more of a different type (possibly even a single different class) they'll get divided just like this.

That's EXACTLY why yours is a double standard. You compare a sub-type of a role with a role and use that as argument that the ROLE to which that sub-type belongs to needs more new jobs than the ROLE that have a lot less jobs overall. If you don't understand that distinction...then it's a lost cause. You're just a DPS fanatic.