The Road to 5.0

[guardin]

higher text package in 5.0 with the removal of dx9 and 32 bit?

[Anonymoose]

I don't recall anyone, anywhere, speculating in-universe that van Hydrus was sent to Azys Lla to get him killed

I still feel there are too many variables for Elidibus to have banked on that, but... ehh, it's not worth arguing.

To follow up on this a bit, I don't think anyone is suggesting that Hydrus being sent to Azys Lla was part of this machination. (Or, at least, I don't think anyone is suggesting we have good reason to assume so without more evidence; the Ascians have a terrible track record of being able to manipulate events from any more than two or three steps ahead.) There are a number of overlapping windows here.

From 2.4 to 4.0, Varis (to quote one client's phrasing of Solus) "truly believed he was leading this dance." He didn't know that Solus was an Ascian, or that the Empire was their tool for sowing chaos, or that the War of Succession and his ascension to the throne was by design. In the post-MSQ stinger of 4.0, we find that Varis has spent most of that patch getting a crash course in all this from Elidibus and is still chewing on it.

In 3.0, Lahabrea led Thordan to Azys Lla; Varis (somehow) gained intel on Azys Lla and gave chase with the VIth Legion (Regula would be the one man Varis would trust to obtain such powerful intel / tech and not use it for his own ends, especially after a war of succession.) This is likely why the narrative specified dragon-enslavement and primal-enslavement technologies above the others.

One thing I've never been 100% sure of is whether Lahabrea always planned for Thordan to summon a primal into himself,, consume the Triad, and create an empire of tempered subjects as God King that would eventually come up against Garlemald, or whether he just led him there for the dragon-enslavement tech and didn't see ANY of this coming. That it all happened right after Lahabrea tasked Nabriales with finding a way to merge man and god; that Thordan even knew how to summon primals or what and where the Triad were at all; and that Elidibus stated Lahabrea's goal was the Eighth Calamity have always made me assume the former.) ANYROAD...

Nobody predicted that Thordan would turn on Lahabrea and get ganked by the Warrior of Light before consuming the Triad, leaving their containment compromised; this state of affairs virtually guaranteed that the Triad would become as cats on Elidibus's chess board.

From 3.0 to 3.5, Regula was in Azys Lla on Varis's orders to secure the apex of Allag's research for Garlean advancement; to "bring the eikons to heel."

From 3.0 to 3.4, Elidibus was working to woo Urianger to the Ascian's side by introducing him to various other pawns and providing him with information.

From 3.1 to 3.5, the Scions of the Seventh Dawn teamed up with Unukalhai, introduced to them by Urianger, who worked for Elidibus. However, Elidibus just pulled this kid out of stasis and threw him into the mix knowing that he and the Warrior of Light would take a shine to one another and focus more on taking out the triad and saving the world than asking questions.

So in all likelihood, Elidibus just saw that his pawn, the Warrior of Light, and Regula van Hydrus were all in the same place for a few moons and realized how convenient it would be if the former moved the two latter into opposition and thus isolated Varis, knowing that he would soon - with Lahabrea out of the picture - be pulling Solus back into active service and revealing to Varis (in 4.0) that nothing was as it seemed.

[YianKutku]

Yeah, I don't think Elidibus literally planned everything out from step one in an elaborate plot to kill Regula, but more that he saw the opportunity present itself, and arranged matters such that it is very likely for Regula to be killed, by putting him in close proximity with us.

Except it's not really our fault that Regula was killed, since that was Zurvan.

One wonders what Elidibus's plan would have been if Regula had gotten immensely lucky and killed the WoL, since it wasn't as though he was holding back when he fought us.

[Guiballad]

Aparently they did a goof in the Steam listing for Shadowbringers and ended up revealing a new area called Kholusia.

https://imgur.com/0Id7vPt

Also they refer to Titania as a King which is... interesting.

[Cybylt]

King might be a translation error as Yoshida and Koji referred to Titania as Regent at fanfest which is interesting in itself because that's a title for an interim head of state.

[QT_Melon]

King might be a translation error as Yoshida and Koji referred to Titania as Regent at fanfest which is interesting in itself because that's a title for an interim head of state.

Yeah there's different gender neutrals for King, I stated in another thread this isn't unusual as the same thing happened to a degree with the Berserk manga with the "Flowerstorm King"

[Fenral]

Yeah there's different gender neutrals for King, I stated in another thread this isn't unusual as the same thing happened to a degree with the Berserk manga with the "Flowerstorm King"

AH! That's why I was thinking it wasn't unusual for a fairy "queen" to be referred to as king. Got a whole lot of nothing poking around Wikipedia.


...But the Dark Horse editions translate it as "Flower Storm Monarch," probably because of the gendered connotations of the word "king" in English. But you're right that both are using the kanji (王 ou) in a gender-neutral sense.

[Mansion]

Aparently they did a goof in the Steam listing for Shadowbringers and ended up revealing a new area called Kholusia.

Could it be that one?

[silentwindfr]

Aparently they did a goof in the Steam listing for Shadowbringers and ended up revealing a new area called Kholusia.

https://imgur.com/0Id7vPt

Also they refer to Titania as a King which is... interesting.

if we use the legend, if i'm right the king of fae is oberon, no? he is the husband of Titania (ref: https://www.celtic-weddingrings.com/...of-the-fairies )

[Iscah]

I also didn't remember getting the impression that Unukalhai had deliberately killed Regula - but my alt happens to be up to post-Heavensward so it seems to be a good time to go back and replay for a second take on it!

And in conclusion.... I would dare to say that Moose's quotes, while correct, are misleading in conjunction with claiming that Elidibus "specifically tasked Unukalhai with getting Regula killed one patch before he showed up in 4.0".

Unukalhai was attempting to kill Regula at one point, but I don't think it was ever stated that it was a direct order from Elidibus - he may have been acting on his own. He admits that he acts more emotionally when the issue of primals is involved, and it's possible he's going after Regula as part of his private crusade rather than Elidibus's orders.

More importantly, there's a gap between those quotes and the circumstances that actually led to Regula's death, which don't seem to be Unukalhai's doing or intention.



Our interactions with Regula, in context:

Patch 3.2: When the Bough Wakes (Sephirot)

After beating Sephirot, the WoL, Krile and Unukalhai are leaving the facility. Unukalhai (at the back of the group) hesitates and turns back as the others walk off, and Regula appears. He has evidently been tracking us while we went after Sephirot. Unukalhai gives his "you Garleans never learn" speech. Regula isn't interested in fighting him, and walks off.

The others rejoin him, and he deliberately doesn't tell them that Regula was there.


Patch 3.3: The Fate of Stars (solo mission)

The Garleans have broken through a ward placed over the Aetherochemical Facility, and we need to stop them before they get their hands on critical Allagan technology.

This is where Unukalhai explains about the Genesis Expression, and proposes that we have the opportunity to kill Regula.

During the confrontation, this is first where [one of the Scions] mentions to Regula that the eikon-trapping technology may be dangerous, and not the solution he should be seeking.

Later, Urianger confronts Unukalhai about the day's events - the ward he had placed on the facility was too complex for anyone, let alone the Garleans, to have broken so swiftly without a power akin to the Echo - and thus concludes that Unukalhai had both broken the ward and fed Regula information about what lay within. This is where he accuses Unukalhai of setting a trap for Regula... and then says he should have explained his plan to the other Scions so they could successfully close the trap together, and with less risk!

For now, Regula is still seen merely as an enemy.


Patch 3.4: Balance Unto All (Sophia)

The Garleans are not directly involved in this chapter, but we learn from Y'shtola that Regula was promoted on merit, and that enemy factions within Garlemald are eager to see him fail.


Patch 3.5: The Last Pillar to Fall (Zurvan)

We return to Azys Lla to learn that Zurvan's thralls have broken free and are running amok throughout the facility. Regula appears, declaring the Allan technology flawed and worthless to him, and offers us a truce - hoping that the intervention of those with the Echo will be able to save the lives of his men. (A dialogue option allows you to hesitate or refuse his offer, in which case Unukalhai and Krile volunteer first.)

Four generators feeding power to Zurvan need to be destroyed - the three Echo-blessed are necessary choices, and Regula volunteers as the fourth. Unukalhai seems fearful that he is not strong enough, and Regula tries to encourage him.

And so the critical moment: Unukalhai hesitates in battle, and Regula is dealt a mortal wound in coming to his defence.

Afterwards, he rushes to Regula's side.

"...You saved me. Why?" he asks.

And once we withdraw and regroup away from the primal's influence, he seems distressed. "He's dead. If only I had been stronger..."

It doesn't seem at all like he secretly intended for it to happen.

It's possible, of course, but I don't think it's true. He seems genuine.

Additionally one of his other driving forces is to atone for his failure to save his own world by saving this one - I think he wants to stop Zurvan far more than he wants to gamble his life on the chance that Regula will rush to his defence in time, and receive a mortal blow out of it, and that Unukalhai won't also die as a result.



So this perhaps is where people come away with different impressions of what happened. Yes, Unukalhai is accused of, and openly admits to, having plotted Regula's death - at one point. But for the immediate events within patch 3.5, his (and our) impression of Regula had changed, and I don't think he had any intention of it.



Also... "you're not alone any more - welcome to the Scions of the Seventh Dawn" says Krile at the end. Yes, the wonderful fellowship where we shut you in a side room and don't think to ask for your help while all your new friends fall into magically-induced comas.... Seriously, when are we letting the poor kid out? ;_;



And another thing....

Here's another layer of questioning: Is that premise even true? We've always been told that Hydaelyn created Life to respond to Zodiark's treachery. This was in the Gerun Oracles, which Elidibus held up as truth. Is this the big hint that Varis has been duped? Or is the truer truth that life as we know it, the mortal races, are Hydaelyn's children, but that we pre-date this? That we were created when Hydaelyn and Zodiark were one, that THIS is why we are both Light and Dark, that THIS - our being ALIVE - is what pulled them apart?

(Now there's more than one way to interpret "Were Light and Dark given form when man was born?")

When I typed out all of Ramuh's script a while back, I noticed that he seems to vary between upper-case "Light and Darkness" and lower-case "light and darkness". This quote uses lower-case, and he seems to be talking about man's actions rather than cosmic Light and Dark.

Assuming it was deliberate, I'm not sure that line can be used for theorising about Hydaelyn and Zodiark.