OH GOD NO...

[Wolf_Heartnet]

So dungeons, trials, alliance raids, normal and savage raids, maps and deep dungeons are all niche content, since no one would bother doing them more than once if it wasn't for the rewards they get from them. Kinda makes you wonder what made people like this game in ARR and HW if all these are content that they would run from if they involved any challenge. Maybe it's the story?? Well, some just skip it because they don't care about the story and they only want to go through it quickly to open up the new zones (reward), does that make it a niche content also?

The point is, if you're gonna use the "people only did it for the reward (relic)" argument, then can you provide a content in the game that is so widely liked and received without being tied to a reward? I still do Eureka even though I already have my RDM and DRK relics. Why? Because 1- I like the group environment there, 2- Finally a zone with a sense of danger where you don't just flat out all the mobs with one or two hits 3- I'm making tons of gil from the stuff I get there (reward). And I assure you, even if they were to remove the relic completely from Eureka, people would still complain about any kind of reward being placed there that they're not able to obtain (Take a look at PVP rewards).

Hildibrand. People will do it for no reward.

[Alucard135]

Reward vs no reward is not the point. As you mention there's more than just the relic available as possible reward anyways. What I'm really suggesting would be to make relics obtainable via multiple paths. IF the relic was also available via other means, how well would Eureka actually do?

People would still do it. Saying the relic is the only reason people go there isn't true. Else Anemos would be a deserted land when it first released and people got their relics, since it can easily take you less than three days to get your weapon+full gear set. You wouldn't have seen level 20s still there despite having their relic weapon. Why? there are other rewards to get there. Some do it to cap weakly tomes, the T-rex mount, the bardings, rare drops from NM (Scorpion harness etc.). If the relic was the only reason, that content should have died in less than a week because of how quick it is to get the relic. I didn't mention Pyros cuz some would use the argument that people are doing it for the RNG stat rolls, which I would question the people doing it for the stats as to why they're doing it if they're not going to run savage or ultimate content?

[Alucard135]

Hildibrand. People will do it for no reward.

That's unfair! You can't use Hildibrand because that content is a reward in itself!

[EusisLandale]

That's unfair! You can't use Hildibrand because that content is a reward in itself!

Then maybe more things should be designed that way. Make everything's process a reward itself so it doesn't really matter where they put the other rewards, as opposed to using rewards to see how many people would push through content that's about as fun as jamming rusty nails through their hands to get it.

[Rokke]

imo the pushback against Eureka getting so many rewards is because they’ve cut back on giving things out for free or by more accessible means. ie. in HW we’d get 4-6 hairstyles per patch and they’d usually all be added to the aesthetician with the occasional odd one out being added by some other means. In SB we’re down to getting only 2 hairs per patch, and half the time they’ve been locked behind something- pvp, mgp, eureka, potd, etc.

I don’t mind Eureka getting glamours, minions, mounts, and emotes as carrots - most side content gets something in that vein and nearly all the loot is buyable on the mb for those (see: me lol) who don't want to try out their rng. What annoys me is putting relics (and dyeable AFs) in there. I can't earn upgrades with tomes, I can't earn upgrades with beast tribes, I can't earn upgrades with pvp- In HW I had a myriad of ways to work on my relic. In SB I only have one.

[Alucard135]

Then maybe more things should be designed that way. Make everything's process a reward itself so it doesn't really matter where they put the other rewards, as opposed to using rewards to see how many people would push through content that's about as fun as jamming rusty nails through their hands to get it.

That was sarcasm lol.

[Gwenorai]

I was in Pagos for a grand total of five minutes before the whiteness of all that snow made my eyes bleed and the soggy remains splat on my keyboard.

No, just no. Maybe if there was a way to skip one of them and go right to the latest one and play catch up. But I'm not setting one foot into that frozen hell of a migraine. I swear that snow was brighter than the snow in Coerthos. e_e

And if I'm forced to go in there for BiS I'm really not going to be happy. BiS shouldn't be locked under that sort of thing. Pretty glamour, mounts, hairs - yes; that I go for. All cosmetic. But a BiS weapon? Please.

'Why aren't you practising your rotation, Gwen?'
'Yeah Gwen, why aren't you doing progging or doing any of those new fancy extremes?'
'Oh, I'm sorry dear friends. For I have to go into Eureka and farm darkness orbs that I will then have a blacksmith ram into the very soul of my weapon for which I may or may not get the correct stats on because RNG is one hell of a mistress.'

pepehands

[EusisLandale]

That was sarcasm lol.

You might have been being sarcastic, but it's true. Hildibrand content is its own reward, and they really do need to design more stuff with that sort of mentality.

[whiskeybravo]

People would still do it. Saying the relic is the only reason people go there isn't true. Else Anemos would be a deserted land when it first released and people got their relics, since it can easily take you less than three days to get your weapon+full gear set. You wouldn't have seen level 20s still there despite having their relic weapon. Why? there are other rewards to get there. Some do it to cap weakly tomes, the T-rex mount, the bardings, rare drops from NM (Scorpion harness etc.). If the relic was the only reason, that content should have died in less than a week because of how quick it is to get the relic. I didn't mention Pyros cuz some would use the argument that people are doing it for the RNG stat rolls, which I would question the people doing it for the stats as to why they're doing it if they're not going to run savage or ultimate content?

Then there'd be no problem taking the relic out?

[BillyKaplan]

Part of the thing is, that while not needed unless you run Savage level content, people still like to improve their gear. For one, there's kind of nothing else to do in the game because almost anything ties back to it in one way or another, unless it's Gold Saucer related content. Event Crafting and Gathering not only ultimately help someone else get their ilvl up, they have their own ilvl and they need tomes for mats.
Second, just because I can run Expert roulette with 360 doesn't mean I won't enjoy it more now that my casual self is at 394 with as much points invested into the stats of my choice as I could manage. I like to perform well and improve myself, even if my latency, and more importantly, anxiety, keep me from tackling more difficult content (and I still got my bum into Suzaku ex a couple of times). It allows for more mistakes because I have more hp, it allows me to make up for party members whose dps is underwhelming. There's a lot of reasons for people who don't do Savage or even Extreme to want to get better gear.