Blue Mage damage

[Phoenicia]

Moon Flute is a big old nope. It's a damage loss, doesn't make up for the lack of seven or so filler spells. Only time I can see Moon Flute being useful is when you know a phase shift is coming up with the boss being invincible for a while.

Red Mage highlighted the issues a bit more, I think. The damage numbers were closer, Red Mage ((In slightly inferior gear, due to me just letting my BLU keep on his swanky clothes)) hitting for 750ish a cast, Blue Mage hitting for 690ish a cast. And that's the issue, three is a .3 second difference in cast times for me ((1.98 Jolt 1 to 1.9 Blue filler)) but Blue Mage has a 20% increase in damage over the Red due to Maim and Mend and a 15 potency advantage over Jolt 1 with Off Guard on the target. Then again it might have to do with how scaling from Maim and Mend and Off guard work, both only adding to the base 130 while the 30% from Red Mage gets added to the 180. ...nope, even then it should be what, 260 from Maim and Mend and Off Guard doubling the potency of the filler to the 240 from Jolt 1 with Maim and Mend 3.

So...yeah. I think that more or less proves that Blue mage scaling is too low right now. So thank you, Phoenicia, for making me get off my backside and test something with potency and cast time closer to what the Blue Mage has. If the additional scaling from gear were really making up the difference for Blue Mages lack of a main weapon then Blue Mage 130 potency spells would be hitting for more then Jolt 1. Considering that fillers are hitting for 8% less I think its safe to say that Blue Mages are about fifteen or so percent behind from where they need to be in that department.

Now the question of whether or not fixing that divide would close the gap between BLU and other jobs is another story. I THINK it would close to gap to the point where we'd see the standard differences between classes and not a clear divide.

Just keep in mind buffs stack multiplicatively.

What does this mean, you ask? It means Off-guard's 50% applies AFTER the Maim and Mend, this means once you're at 150% output, Off-guard adds 75% to base, totally 225% of "base-line"... Same with Peculiar light applying AFTER aforementioned 2 effects. If BLU is 15% behind at 225% output instead of RDM's 130%, we have a serious scaling problem.

[Palladiamors]

Just keep in mind buffs stack multiplicatively.

What does this mean, you ask? It means Off-guard's 50% applies AFTER the Maim and Mend, this means once you're at 150% output, Off-guard adds 75% to base, totally 225% of "base-line"... Same with Peculiar light applying AFTER aforementioned 2 effects. If BLU is 15% behind at 225% output instead of RDM's 130%, we have a serious scaling problem.

If thats the case then its even worse. Blue Mages ability to control its burst is nice sure, but the cooldowns are inhibitive and don't add enough on their own to make up for the down time spent using fillers.

If they can fix the scaling Blue mage will be in a good place. But...considering its a limited job, I dunno if they will or not.

[Cabalabob]

Keep in mind that BLU unlike BLM is also more than a dps, people think ninja is utility god because it brings a 10% damage buff every minute. Well how many dps can AoE heal, reduce their damage taken by 92%, use a stun as powerful as an AoE shield bash, reduce mob damage dealt by 10% on demand, silence on demand and most importantly buff the entire parties magic damage by 30% every minute (before you even consider spell speed)?

BLU may not be top DPS but it’s utility is through the roof.

That’s not even mentioning other things that have more niche use like tail screw, paralyse, deep freeze, blind, evasion up, petrify etc.

[Palladiamors]

Keep in mind that BLU unlike BLM is also more than a dps, people think ninja is utility god because it brings a 10% damage buff every minute. Well how many dps can AoE heal, reduce their damage taken by 92%, use a stun as powerful as an AoE shield bash, reduce mob damage dealt by 10% on demand, silence on demand and most importantly buff the entire parties magic damage by 30% every minute (before you even consider spell speed)?

BLU may not be top DPS but it’s utility is through the roof.

Already covered that in a comparison to Red Mage. The problem is less the potential damage of BLU and more that scaling is borked. Where as the 130 potency attacks SHOULD be hitting for more damage than Red Mages Jolt 1, its hitting for a good chunk less. This is just a fixable scaling issue.

Past that its good controlled burst, great AoE damage, and good if limited support. Fixing the damage issues will put them just behind Red Mage but with more utility, which to me makes sense.

[Phoenicia]

snip.

Depends on how you look at it.

The case here is, you have low potency spells in general and lack of weapon dage stat that is being off-set one way or another. This gives us three scenarios(ignoring gimmicky spells for obvious reasons)

1- you have all your spells to choose from.

In this case you have a burst that increases your average DPS to slightly below average at leel 50. You parse something between 400 and 500. Which is more on the low side (tanks at 50 can do 300~400 if want a ballpark).

2- You don't have all your spells and you try to make do (i.e. no primal spells because f*** that grind, right?)

You lose your actual burst and the biggest thing will a bristled moonflute inside peculiar light. You won't reach 300 DPS. You'll peak at 297 or something as a matter of fact.

3- This is the hypothetical case if the job loses the "limited" part and becomes an actual job of which BLU will go through significant changes that aren't necessarily a rework. Take WAR changes in 4.2 with IR beoming a 90s CD, replacing Berserk and changing wat it does. Completely changed the rotation but the class is still about fell cleaves and very short defensive cooldowns.

Weapon damage needs o be added back and the scaling "fixed". Peculiar light will probably drop to 5% because it is AoE. 10% if SE wants to stretch it to remain relevant on bosses. Off-guard might stay as is and blu's average potency remains the same, or lowered to 10-20% and make it a buff you keep akin to Dragon Kick or something. A general rotation should be figured out with some spells of choice (added flavour, not damage) and others repurposed into situational or Carnival exclusive.

Before anyone asks, don't use parses! (Don't ban me Yoshi-P, ok? We love you!)

[Symon17]

In this case you have a burst that increases your average DPS to slightly below average at leel 50. You parse something between 400 and 500. Which is more on the low side (tanks at 50 can do 300~400 if want a ballpark).

Out of curiosity, can you confirm that any dots used were properly calculated in those parses?

[Phoenicia]

When calculating the damage of 1 person it is pretty much 100% accurate. In general the current parser (ahem, which I'm not using of course!!, /wink) is within a 2% error margins that get corrected when uploaded to fflogs (that's why the dps on fflogs is usually lower than *ahem* said certain not-allowed program*cough*).

Also GMs I love you too, don't ban me for using the bad p-word! (not as much as Yoshida-San of course).

[Symon17]

When calculating the damage of 1 person it is pretty much 100% accurate. In general the current parser (ahem, which I'm not using of course!!, /wink) is within a 2% error margins that get corrected when uploaded to fflogs (that's why the dps on fflogs is usually lower than *ahem* said certain not-allowed program*cough*).

Also GMs I love you too, don't ban me for using the bad p-word! (not as much as Yoshida-San of course).

Right. I'm not questioning the quality of the parser per se. But if you perform that same rotation but cast no dots, do you get the same results? Others have noted that some of the more popular parsers don't add BLUs dot ticks to the overall dps because the class is new. There was a similar issue with SMN back in 2.x.

[Phoenicia]

Right. I'm not questioning the quality of the parser per se. But if you perform that same rotation but cast no dots, do you get the same results? Others have noted that some of the more popular parsers don't add BLUs dot ticks to the overall dps because the class is so new. There was a similar issue with SMN back in 2.x.

Yeah and that stopped being the case in 2.x. Now we have concrete data like how summoner's dots contribute 20% of its dps if kept at 100% uptime and Pld is about 10%, etc. To be fair I did not dissect the BLU damage contributors, and probably won't as it is useless atm due to no relevance to any content, we just wanted ballpark marks and I got the numbers in my previous post.

Back then we had multiples but everyone converged to 1 parser that was originally designed for ever quest but been since changed to accommodate various plug-ins that work on many mmos in the market. This one reads dot damage from the packets being sent back and forth to the server. The issue is the game reads dot ticks as "combined damage" so you can't separate them (but fflogs follows a formula to do so). But if you're the only source of said dots, it will be exact.

[Symon17]

Yeah and that stopped being the case in 2.x. Now we have concrete data like how summoner's dots contribute 20% of its dps if kept at 100% uptime and Pld is about 10%, etc. To be fair I did not dissect the BLU damage contributors, and probably won't as it is useless atm due to no relevance to any content, we just wanted ballpark marks and I got the numbers in my previous post.

Back then we had multiples but everyone converged to 1 parser that was originally designed for ever quest but been since changed to accommodate various plug-ins that work on many mmos in the market. This one reads dot damage from the packets being sent back and forth to the server. The issue is the game reads dot ticks as "combined damage" so you can't separate them (but fflogs follows a formula to do so). But if you're the only source of said dots, it will be exact.

If that's the case for BLU, then why do you parse the same when casting dots vs not? That's what I'm really getting to. The parse gives you between 400 and 500 when casting song of torment for instance. If you parse and never cast it, the dps doesn't go down. Does Song of torment do no damage?