BLU as an "Unlimited" Job - Thoughts and Suggestions

[Kalise]

I believe that BLU can work as a job that isn't restricted to certain level caps and banned from certain (Read: Most) content. I feel it's almost there in its current implementation and really just a short leap from its current state into something that would have no issues going into the game proper.

As such, I wanted to put together a thread where people can discuss their views and ideas behind changes that could be made in order to facilitate the moving of BLU into a more unlimited role (Also, setting a precedent for future "Limited Jobs" to not have to deal with the same asinine restrictions)

Since, BLU is pretty fun, with lots of potential that it seems such a waste to relegate it to minor side content and having new content be released as a secondary to the main game.

So, to start with I thought I'd put out there some ideas to changes to the core mechanics of BLU and the issue with "Not having learned necessary skills for DF"

Base Mechanic Changes:
BLU is now only restricted from accessing the Duty Finder up until level 50. At which point, a series of side quests will become available which will each unlock a Whalaqee Totem for a new skill (Detailed Below). The finishing of all quests in this chain will unlock access to Duty Finder content.

BLU now has stats on their weapons. Due to this, they now receive a normalized level of Magic Power from INT. Weapons from level 1-50 are available from Battlefield Supplies vendors in Limsa Lominsa, Ul'dah and Old Gridania. Weapons from 50-60 from Battlefield Supplies vendor in Ishgard and weapons from 60-70 available from merchants throughout Gyr Abania and Othard. In addition, new weapons are added to dungeons from levels 50-70.

Ability Changes:
All skills now have a minimum level requirement, restricting their usability in level sync'd content in addition to meaning a level requirement in order to learn a skill.

In addition, certain skills will now apply one of a number of debuffs. These debuffs have no impact on the enemy itself and are merely used for BLU's own combo effects, as a result they are appplied to all enemy targets and are unaffected by diminishing returns.

Off-Guard:
The increased damage dealt to a target affected by this skill is reduced from 50% down to 20% in order to allow base potencies to be increased.

Peculiar Light:
The cooldown of this skill is increased to 90 seconds up from 60 seconds. The magical damage increase provided by the skill is reduced from 30% down to 20%.

Mighty Guard:
Reworked - Now functions as a party cooldown skill. Reduces physical and magical damage taken by the party by 10% for 30 seconds. 180 second cooldown. This affect does not stack with Troubador bonuses.

White Wind:
Now has a cooldown of 120 seconds. Also, as a result, it now has a minimum heal of 50% of your maximum health to improve consistency.

Various Skills:
Base potency of many basic damage skills has been increased to 170 up from 100/110/120/130

New Skills and Skill Redesigns:

Aqua Breath now applies the debuff "Water" to targets in lieu of Dropsy.
*NEW* Bubble Spray functions the same as Aqua Breath and is obtainable from Megalocrabs throughout the world.

High Voltage now has a combo bonus against targets afflicted by the debuff "Water". Combo potency increased to 230 up from 130. This skill has a cooldown of 15 seconds.
*NEW* Electrocute functions the same as High Voltage and is acquired from a Whalaqee Totem unlocked by one of the new level 50 side quests.

The Ram's Voice now applies the debuff "Ice" to targets in lieu of Deep Freeze.

The Dragon's Voice now has a combo bonus against targets afflicted by the debuff "Ice". Combo potency reduced to 250 down from 310. Deadzone decreased from 8 yalms to 4 yalms. This skill has a cooldown of 18 seconds.

Flamethrower now applies the debuff "Fire" to targets.
*NEW* Heat Breath functions the same as Flamethrower and is acquired from a Whalaqee Totem unlocked by one of the new level 50 side quests.

Fire Angon now has a combo bonus to targets affected by the "Fire" debuff. Combo Potency is 240 and applies a damage over time effect with potency of 15 with duration of 15 seconds. This skill has a 20 second cooldown.
*NEW* Blastbomb functions the same as Fire Angon and is acquired from a Whalaqee Totem unlocked by one of the new level 50 side quests.

*NEW* Quasar deals unaspected damage to targets in an area with the potency of 400. Acquired from a Whalaqee Totem unlocked by one of the new level 50 side quests.

*NEW* Toxic Shell functions the same as Song of Torment. Acquired from a Whalaqee Totem unlocked by one of the new level 50 side quests.

*NEW* Beta functions the same as Eruption. Acquired from a Whalaqee Totem unlocked by one of the new level 50 side quests.

Feather Rain potency decreased to 100 from 180. Damage over time potency decreased to 10 from 20. Duration increased to 60 seconds up from 6 seconds.
*NEW* Leafstorm functions the same as Feather Rain. Acquired from a Whalaqee Totem unlocked by one of the new level 50 side quests.

Mountain Buster potency increased from 310 to 400. No longer deals reduced damage to targets beyond the first.
*NEW* Earth Shake functions the same as Mountain Buster. Acquired from a Whalaqee Totem unlocked by one of the new level 50 side quests.

Shock Strike potency increased from 310 to 600.
*NEW* Blitzstrahl functions the same as Shock Strike. Acquired from a Whalaqee Totem unlocked by one of the new level 50 side quests.

Glass Dance potency increased from 290 to 900
*NEW* Ice Break functions the same as Glass Dance. Acquired from a Whalaqee Totem unlocked by one of the new level 50 side quests.

Veil of the Whorl now also causes damage taken to increase the targets magical damage taken by 5% for 4 seconds.
*NEW* Maelstrom functions the same as Veil of the Whorl. Acquired from a Whalaqee Totem unlocked by one of the new level 50 side quests.

The idea of these changes are to make the base foundations of BLU feel solid. With less reliance on Off-Guard and Maim and Mend to do appreciable damage, leveling alone will feel more enjoyable and lead into experimenting with more spells instead of spamming just 1000 Needles.

In addition, alternative skills for currently RNG gated ones within Trials/Dungeons are made available through several short side-quests (Each quest will unlock multiple totems to reduce the investment of time needed to get your skills online). In addition, their minimum level requirements are spread throughout levels 1-50 so some will be usable in level sync'd content. Of course, completionists as well as those whom wish to use alternate skill animations are still able to farm the duties to learn the original spells.

Also, the basis for the job's playstyle is created. Through the application and capitalization of numerous elemental debuffs, they will carve out a dynamic playstyle for themselves. With new skills adding to this system with new element skills (Such as Air, Void, Earth, Poison, Bleed etc.) and/or new ways to consume existing debuffs.

This will allow players to tailor their skillset to find a selection of combos and elements that they like to use in order to deal their damage.

In addition, they will also be able too access various unaspected abilities which have powerful effects but don't feed into their elements and combos, while also having their Primal oGCD abilities (Also, their non-primal more reasonably attained variants) to use alongside their combos.

[Laphael]

I appreciate your work, but that sounds as boring as other normal Jobs.

[zandervont]

I appreciate your work, but that sounds as boring as other normal Jobs.

much bettter than spamming 1000 needles, or Glower.

[Kalise]

I appreciate your work, but that sounds as boring as other normal Jobs.

How so?

Do you find current BLU to be more interesting than normal jobs? If so, why? What about it makes it more interesting and what differs between it and what I've suggested?

Some more feedback would go a long way towards finding a solution that would both allow the job to be unique and interesting whilst still allowing it to perform in a reasonable manner during regular content.

Also bear in mind, these are merely the 1-50 skills. Without touching on the 50-70 skills which would further enhance the playstyle much like with other jobs (For example, SAM in level 1-49 is pretty dull, it's only once you hit 50+ and get your full suite of Iaijustsu's and your Kenko Gauge that the class starts to become fully fleshed out)

[RadicalPesto]

I appreciate your work, but that sounds as boring as other normal Jobs.

There's a lot of jobs in this game that are plenty fun. I actually don't get this whole "Blue Mage needs to be a minigame because every job in the game is boring!" mentality... like do you actually like this game? Because Bard is 100 times more fun than Blue Mage will ever be as a limited job despite having a "generic rotation" or whatever.

[Lambdafish]

much bettter than spamming 1000 needles, or Glower.

Fixing those is a different discussion. That doesn't mean that OPs direction is the correct way to go.

Do you find current BLU to be more interesting than normal jobs? If so, why?

I can give you my opinion on it: I like BLU for what it represents rather than what it is. We all know that BLU is flawed, and over time it will be improved (As most jobs in the game have at some point), but its core identity is exactly what community has been asking for for a long time. My biggest complaint about BLU is that I want more, I don't want BLU in raids, I want Disciples of Collection (I refuse to call them limited jobs) to have their own raiding scene that gives us a different experience that I guess leans slightly more towards how XI works (im not saying I want XI). The masked carnival gives us a taste of strategic use of our skills, introducing new elements to XIV combat such as elemental weaknesses, with these requiring planning and prepping before raid, rather than simply acting and reacting to 'generic' attacks with set skills.

We should get squadrons at the very least, and I have seen arguments for allowing BLU into older roulettes once they have all skills unlocked for that level, but I would never want BLU to be just another job, because we have enough of those already, and will be getting even more. Let BLU expand what the game can be, rather than being warped and changed to fit within the set criteria for what the game currently is.

[Razorfinch]

while many of the changes would be good, such as changing potencies and the nature of the blu weapons so that they could produce damage like other jobs, some of this looks overcomplicated and heavily leaning towards removing the rewards of obtaining spells through personal achievement and effort, which is central to the whole motif of BLU.

1. Just remove BLU's restriction from not having access to the DF synced altogether. Instead make certain abilities. (the only one I can think of being 1000 needles) unusable in synced content under level 45 maybe? 1000 needles is really the only spell that does not scale well. Level syncing abiltiies in general is /okay/ but I think most spells are fine as is aside from 1000 needles for any content tbh. tailscrew/missile/and doom already only really work on trash mobs so those are not likely to break anything meaningfully.

2. Instead of replacing certain abilities with quested copies, thereby removing the need to endeavor to obtain them. Utilize the ability for blu to enter content synced to create a more rewarding and fun way to get them. Increase the drop rate on the rarer abilties obtained through trials and dungeons to something reasonable like 20-30% and make it so they are only obtainable by doing the content synced. Want glass dance? learn and beat Shiva EX synced you would only need a few runs to get the ability, synced content is already pretty easy especially with the echo. It would be more rewarding and not grindy at all if instead of being carried through the content 100 times you have to learn the fight and complete it as blu a few times. If anything the learn rates in this scenario should be reversed, having field mobs drop spells much slower than trial and dungeon mobs.

3. Personally I think mighty guard is fine as it is. it's a handy tool for soloing and the idea of having BLU be a "ghetto tank" is appealing in it's own right. If anything I'd like to see BLU be encouraged to take on a tanking spot for some of the less intense content such as dungeons, using CC and mighty guard. We could use more tanks in this type of content, why not let BLU flex into filling that need? Obviously a BLU should never be on par with regular tanks, and likely should not be able to que as tank for 8 and 24 man content, but dungeons? Let them eat cake. BLU having a small tanking kit that would let them flex into that role is nothing but a good thing imo.

I personally have no problem with BLU just being level 50 until the dev team has time to develop it up to cap, but I think it's far too limited as is. There's no really great reasons for it to be as limited as it is rn aside from like 1000 needles being super overpowered in lower level content. I would vastly prefer "limited" being "limited for a time until we finish it." rather than "side activity". The Masked Carnivale is nifty and a fun way to earn a few spells, but engaging endgame content it is not.

[Huntrss]

How so?

Do you find current BLU to be more interesting than normal jobs? If so, why? What about it makes it more interesting and what differs between it and what I've suggested?

Some more feedback would go a long way towards finding a solution that would both allow the job to be unique and interesting whilst still allowing it to perform in a reasonable manner during regular content.

Also bear in mind, these are merely the 1-50 skills. Without touching on the 50-70 skills which would further enhance the play style much like with other jobs (For example, SAM in level 1-49 is pretty dull, it's only once you hit 50+ and get your full suite of Iaijustsu's and your Kenko Gauge that the class starts to become fully fleshed out)

This The Blue Mage could be level 80 with the other Jobs when Shadowbringers release why are they not because this is totally a Different Job then any other Job in the game and the players are not going to understand how to play it at it best. so to make them feel better we are going to put them a side and leave them out of most content and a few little words and they'll be ok with it. like the top tier raids will not use you so we don't want you to feel rush so sit right here and go slow take your time. like I said your already making a list thinking everything wrong with the Blue mage when it's not. this if we messed up who fault is it the developers who babysitting us or are we able to go my bad now where that located .. yep going got all spells and ready to go. yeah but you won't work well with others so don't worry the team of developers are putting you? oh look you want to go here .. nope sorry you be ok though the big Developers are going to lock you out of fighting so you won't get hurt. ok maybe if my spells change to these just like everyone else then I get to fight right. oh look you are trying to kill what make you .. well you. when you don't see what SE doing you. if you made a list on what he said the reason were you go everything you said is faults (we are done this way because of 1 thing the developers want responiability on what the players should be in charge of and nothing else). you can't even do Job Quest without having the right spell.

[Kalise]

I can give you my opinion on it: I like BLU for what it represents rather than what it is. We all know that BLU is flawed, and over time it will be improved (As most jobs in the game have at some point), but its core identity is exactly what community has been asking for for a long time.

What exactly is that core identity?

Playing as BLU, I don't feel it's much different to any other class, other than how it learns skills and of course, the complete and total disregard for having skills feel different and unique what with all of them being just normal spammable skills with no CD's or anything.

Further exacerbated by the fact that many skills are interchangeable because they're all balanced the same doing 120/130 potency to a target/in an area with different "Flavours" that are basically unusable because they're all predicated on having targets afflicted with status ailments that are highly limited in application (Such as Petrify is only from that 1 skill you get from Haukke Manor and is an RNG chance to apply it only to trash mobs)

As I mention in my OP, I suggest these things because it feels to me, that BLU IS very close to "Normal" jobs in comparison.

My biggest complaint about BLU is that I want more, I don't want BLU in raids, I want Disciples of Collection (I refuse to call them limited jobs) to have their own raiding scene that gives us a different experience that I guess leans slightly more towards how XI works (im not saying I want XI).

You don't want BLU in raids you just want... BLU in raids?

Uhh... Okay.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to think of ways to make elements mean something in places outside of the Masked Carnivale, so that for BLU, everywhere will feel like Masked Carnivale. Creating interactions between elements and skills that cause them in a way that will not only feel good to use, but also mean that people will be able to experiment with different skill setups rather than use the 1 skill that does X element damage to the target that's weak to X element. Or their current playstyle where they pick whatever 130 potency attack and spam that for days (Especially given how few people have the full slew of abilities for the rotation, because RNG on Primal skills being learned...)

Let BLU expand what the game can be, rather than being warped and changed to fit within the set criteria for what the game currently is.

Well, letting BLU be a "Normal" job without heavy limitations DOES expand what the game can be. As it means that any job that doesn't fit into exactly the same formula as other jobs in the "Level up, get skills = GG" sense can still be created and can still fit into the majority of content within the game.

Instead of being segregated to side content which would need the devs to divert resources to specifically in order to make sure these few jobs can get continual content while at the same time you KNOW that their primary focus will be with the content accessed by the majority of jobs. All that content is a veritable playground for a job like BLU to be used and to flex their muscles in terms of gaining new skills (Again, the skill set noted in my OP is merely the 1-50 core skills. There's so much more depth that can be added with the 50-70 skills)

Especially given how quick it would be to consume new content. Heck, a majority of the content for BLU already was completed in days for many people, getting to level 50 and learning most spells and completing the Masked Carnivale.

How much time will need to be spent by the Devs to create more content? How long will that content last? A month? A week? A day?

How much time is spent by a normal class experiencing all the content the Devs make for them? All the raids and dungeons, all the MSQ's, all the time in exploratory missions, all the time spend doing DF dailies and Beast Tribe dailies and PvP and tomestone farming and all the other many things that Limited Jobs are prohibited from.

All that extra content locked away from the jobs for what? The possibility that they might make a "Limited Job Raid" where elemental weaknesses matter despite their not being a guarantee that any other limited job other than BLU will even HAVE elemental attacks?

Not to mention, that BLU being able to do normal content, doesn't preclude them from adding in additional Masked Carnivale style content for them to do or these FFXI style "Tactical Raids" that you wish to get. It merely means that the job can have content to play in without ultimately having to drag people away from playing their jobs in content that matters to them in order to carry them through irrelevant dungeons/trials to get their skills...

some of this looks overcomplicated and heavily leaning towards removing the rewards of obtaining spells through personal achievement and effort, which is central to the whole motif of BLU.

Well, this is merely just because as BLU exists at the moment, some of their core spells in order to have a full DPS rotation, are locked behind level 50 EX Trials (The Primal skills) or otherwise need to run through level 50 dungeons/raids in order to obtain (Such as Song of Torment)

Which causes an issue if you ever intend to let people access DF because then they literally wouldn't have access to their core rotation until they've somehow already farmed the content accessed by the DF a ton (Especially with the Primal skills only having a 5% chance to be learned)

For the most part, I want skills to be collectable in the overworld. However, in order to fix what SE screwed up by sticking such important skills into RNG Dungeons and Trials, there has to be a compromise. To which, I feel the best solution is being able to get similar abilities from totems upon reaching a level where DF becomes accessible, but still having the option to go and learn the spells from the Dungeons/Trials at a later date (Much like how people in the single player FF games might complete the game and then go back and learn all the skills for completionist purposes)

Ideally, for all future skills, I would prefer if the ones that would be core for the full DPS rotation (Or can substitute for part of the core DPS rotation) be all learned from enemies in the overworld. Be it random enemies, FATEs or Leves. As that is most fun and more true to the idea of BLU.

It just sucks that SE botched it pretty hard with Song of Torment and the Primal skills...

1. Just remove BLU's restriction from not having access to the DF synced altogether. Level syncing abiltiies in general is /okay/ but I think most spells are fine as is aside from 1000 needles for any content tbh.

Well, it's not just about the fact that certain (1000 Needles) skills are OP at lower levels, but it's also about consistency and the NUMBER of skills available.

People would complain if when they're sync'd to level 15 and running Sastasha they only have 2 skills to spam and are not particularly effective (Outside stat syncing making them deal massive damage compared to an actual level 15 newbie) meanwhile you have BLU running around with 24 skills having full access to all of their level 70 combos.

Again, ideally it wouldn't be so strict that you couldn't for example, go and learn skills from an enemy that's 10 levels higher than you. Just that you're not running around with a ton of available skills in content where everyone else is far more limited. Since, BLU will anyway have more skills available than average due to needing to be able to access a few skills as depending on what skills they've learned and which ones they actually decide to use.

2. Instead of replacing certain abilities with quested copies, thereby removing the need to endeavor to obtain them. Utilize the ability for blu to enter content synced to create a more rewarding and fun way to get them.

Again, the issue is the conflict of interest between certain skills and the ability to actually go do the content.

At level 50, you'll be expected by groups to have Primal skills and Song of Torment as they're key parts to your rotation. But how do you get those skills? You run through level 50 dungeons and trials.

How do you access those dungeons and trials... Well you can't through Duty Finder because most people who advocate for BLU to be able to access DF want it to be restricted until BLU have learned enough skills they perceive to be necessary for them to function. But without DF access to this content, you're at the mercy of forming a party using the PF function, which outside the initial BLU hype is likely not going to be terribly easy to do ESPECIALLY if you have to do it sync'd so you can't even get a friend to carry you through it.

Of course, this is to say nothing about the CONTENT of the quests to unlock these replacement skills, which could actually just pit you against the relevant enemies and let you learn the normal skills (Thus making the need for my suggested replacements unnecessary)

3. Personally I think mighty guard is fine as it is. it's a handy tool for soloing and the idea of having BLU be a "ghetto tank" is appealing in it's own right. If anything I'd like to see BLU be encouraged to take on a tanking spot for some of the less intense content such as dungeons, using CC and mighty guard. We could use more tanks in this type of content, why not let BLU flex into filling that need?

Because, as a Tank main, I'd rather get new tanks that are actually designed to be tanks, rather than try and balance Mighty Guard in a way that allows it to not be a problematic skill. Especially when it comes to trying to get a job into normal content while also trying to balance them for a pseudo-tank role. BLU's don't have Tank job actions, nor do they have access to Tank gear. Giving them a Tank stance and trying to make them also be able to Tank is just adding in a huge balance headache for little gain.

That, and the current iteration of Mighty Guard is an aberration compared to the much beloved skill of the same name found in many previous games in the series.

It would be akin to if Goblin Punch, instead of being a massive damage nuke, became a short duration stun to a single target.

[Valdegarde]

I feel like trying to figure out what makes it limited would help in delineating what is being locked off fundamentally and what is being limited for little reason. For example, while I want Blue Mage to function as close to a respectable normal FFXIV job as possible, I understand one of its selling points is that it does have a unique leveling system, perhaps being locked out of queuing for leveling dungeons would encourage that. Especially if in the future, there is more focus of getting "required" spells for quests and duty requirements in the overworld/soloable things.

That being said, many of the limitations currently I feel are in place with little to no justification. I wonder if it'd be that hard to have a Blue Spellbook ability set which one sets somewhat like a PvP action bar that becomes automatically available in queue-able, at-level content. Some abilities set within it have different effects (white wind on a cooldown, peculiar light with some restrictions) and some cannot be set.

I don't particularly feel assigning them level gated spells is the most beneficial route, as I feel that there's a certain amount of trust that is involved with playing an online game with other players, and limiting based on the lowest common denominator situations where some Blue Mage joins and is a complete waste of space reflects poorly on not just Blue Mage, but every other job. Yes, there will be some unfortunate instances where a Blue Mage slots Diamondback and just spams it like an idiot all dungeon, but there are also situations (I've unfortunately seen a few) of tanks provoke battling during specific mechanics on fights to grief parties. I also still see White Mages that haven't picked up Regen all the way to 70...Anyway, I just want more trust for the playerbase instead of less. Thankfully Blue Mage is a DPS, and as such in typical random parties their responsibility is rather low, especially in something like Alliance raids. If Blue Mage were a tank or healer and came in lacking something like a Regen or tank stance that might be a different story, but this is not the case. That one Ninja coming into an Alliance raid not slotting or not using/missing Trick Attack is unfortunate, but not entirely uncommon, forgivable, and still people are thankful for the Ninjas that do nail it and control their enmity to boot.

I also respectfully understand that perhaps one reason they've been hesitant to go full resource mode and get Blue Mage where it should be is that they feel a "normal" job needs all the bells and whistles or the dev team wouldn't take pride in their work, so for example having weapons drop from every primal and dungeon that currently exists, meaning a ton of weapon models will have to be created. I wonder if there is a way for the playerbase to convey they're either satisfied with foregoing that amount of weapons, or be willing to wait for that full makeover.

If Blue Mage were to be "balanced" with some of the more problematic spells being retuned or restricted, right now it'd still be a semi-boring, slightly underpowered level 50 job. But that's not really too different than most jobs at 50. Bristle + Song of Torment and planning for a Peculiar Light phase every minute is already more complex than Black Mage and Red Mage at 50. One would imagine it would grow in amount of applicable spells and complexity as the level cap increases. One way I'd like them to do this is, as some players have mentioned, implement more interactions between spells as combos or effects. I propose this needn't be specific 1-2-3 combos, but have more options for spells based on what DoTs to apply to cause effects, like Dropsy -> High Voltage. Lest this create a specific "meta", I would imagine a Blue Mage would have a certain core rotation combo for being in melee range, using Sharpened Knife (for slashing debuff) or Goblin Punch (for blunt) and applying bleed or something with their GCDs while weaving in the other stuff. To fulfill a ranged role, they might have more spells with DoT effect combos they can utilize but have funky range requirements or cast times.

Different "packages" of Blue Mage core rotations in this way needn't be more or less powerful than the other, but as mentioned, give them flexibility in parties under various compositions and situations, which is a very Blue Mage kind of style while still being applicable to parties with other jobs.

Above all, there's a lot of thoughts and feelings about how Blue Mage might eventually be, and even if it's something wildly off from what the playerbase could have theorycrafted, I would like going forward for the team to acknowledge improvements could be done that are appreciated by everyone. While it's not satisfactory for many players currently, people do seem to care about Blue Mage quite a bit and would appreciate greatly for it to get appropriate attention to such an iconic job.