BLU as an "Unlimited" Job - Thoughts and Suggestions

[Factoree]

Not to mention, you can still have crazy combos. For example, if you got some really strong skills with long CD's that need multiple elements on a target to get their combo effect. Or you can have some unique elemental debuffs that only have a chance to be applied when you use certain skills.

An example would be if BLU could access skills such as Void Fire, Void Lightning and other Voidsent skills and each of them only had a chance to apply the "Void" element which would be used for some powerful combo effects.

I love the idea of BLU working on a system where there’s some level of adapting to RNG and decision making, similar to Bard’s whole deal, especially if there’s a benefit to maintaining a diverse array of elemental debuffs on the enemy to encourage you to use a wide array of your spells.

Something else I saw (don’t remember exactly where, but if I find it i’ll edit this) and thought was neat is the idea of applying conditional debuffs.

Let’s say that the [balanced version of] Blue Mage kept a Petrify skill in its toolset similar to Black Mage’s Sleep. If Petrify worked for a few seconds on dungeon trash or overworld mobs, it wouldn’t really be a huge problem, but if it worked on bosses it would very easily be over the line of being unbalanceable.

Hence the idea: if the target is immune to Petrify (or whatever other status effect your spell inflicts), the spell could attempt to inflict a “backup” effect, in this case “partial petrification” where the target’s flesh is only turned partially to stone and they take Earth damage over time instead of being helpless. I’m assuming most of these would be DoTs or even some of BLU’s “inflict this to deal more damage with another spell” statuses.

Could be a neat way to have a little bit of separate balance between “regular” monsters and “raid” monsters.

[Kalise]

I love the idea of BLU working on a system where there’s some level of adapting to RNG and decision making, similar to Bard’s whole deal, especially if there’s a benefit to maintaining a diverse array of elemental debuffs on the enemy to encourage you to use a wide array of your spells.

Yeah, I mean, I see plenty of people talking about wanting elemental weaknesses so that BLU can play off them, but really, that doesn't sound particularly engaging at all. Given most content you'd end up like Eureka, where you just have X element active which counters the target you're currently fighting (Which would translate to "This pack of trash" or "That boss" in regular gameplay. Maybe there would be some trash that have multiple elements in them that serve no purpose other that gimp your AoE damage)

But elements are a way to provide dynamic playstyle, be it by shifting what skills your using based on elemental procs, trying to build up specific elements to unleash a powerful spell, or simply filling time with some simple 1>2(potentially >3) combos of different elements.

Since, it's not as if elemental based attacks are what you'd call, reliable. Especially for monsters whom won't have as much control as say, well practiced Black Mages or Conjurers that literally commune with the Elements. Even more so for the Voidsent whom are already mutated themselves by the Void, what's the chances that their magick would be all weird and inconsistent for proccing things?

Hence the idea: if the target is immune to Petrify (or whatever other status effect your spell inflicts), the spell could attempt to inflict a “backup” effect, in this case “partial petrification” where the target’s flesh is only turned partially to stone and they take Earth damage over time instead of being helpless. I’m assuming most of these would be DoTs or even some of BLU’s “inflict this to deal more damage with another spell” statuses.

Could be a neat way to have a little bit of separate balance between “regular” monsters and “raid” monsters.

Well, part of that is similar to my suggestion with having these "Element" debuffs, with just the extra effect of dealing some DoT damage (Which would put some more number balancing into the equation) as well as bringing up some questions surrounding what happens if a target is immune due to diminishing returns? How would skills that have combo effects word this (Would it instead say "Additional Effect: Potency is increased to X when target is afflicted with Petrification or Partial Petrification. The Petrification or Partial Petrification effect is also removed." how would the Petrify skill word this? Would it work for all sources of say, Petrify or would Partial Petrification be unique to BLU?)

It's a lot more work to try and make CC skills part of a rotation, balancing between trash mobs and bosses as well as dealing with effects that otherwise have a very consistent usage throughout the game.

It was something I had considered before deciding to suggest these debuffs, which could be kept completely separate from CC skills, so that those CC skills would be used primarily for their CC (But could also provide these debuffs. I.e. BLU's Petrify skill, Level 5 Petrify could still apply the "Earth" element debuff, then as a Voidsent skill, it could also have a chance to apply the "Void" element debuff. Thematically still having a similar effect, only being more consistent and easier to balance)

[Factoree]

I think possibly the biggest issue to be discussed regarding unlimiting Blue Mage revolves around the CC aspects. I think in general it’s been found that aside from a few dungeon minibosses vulnerable to instant death, the CC BLU provides really isn’t as crazy as once imagined when factoring in resistances and so forth, especially with gated pulls where you can’t just Deep Freeze the enemy and stroll past. Hell, you might spend longer trying to Doom the enemy than you would just hitting them with AoE.

Wondering if anybody has any thoughts on what this implies for the game, BLU or otherwise. Could very well be that it’s time for some CC to return/debut on other jobs, or if not it could be one of two opposite extremes: that BLU’s seeming focus on CC should be its core attraction (maybe give it a Scan gauge that shows the targeted enemy’s immunities?) or that a hypothetical balanced version of BLU should get the vast majority of its CC gutted.

[Kalise]

Wondering if anybody has any thoughts on what this implies for the game, BLU or otherwise. Could very well be that it’s time for some CC to return/debut on other jobs, or if not it could be one of two opposite extremes: that BLU’s seeming focus on CC should be its core attraction (maybe give it a Scan gauge that shows the targeted enemy’s immunities?) or that a hypothetical balanced version of BLU should get the vast majority of its CC gutted.

I think the most likely recourse would end up being BLU's CC being gutted. Likely with similar limitations that their insta-kill abilities would get if it were to become a real job.

Since, adding in a bunch more CC's to other classes as well as overhauling the way that Diminishing Returns works, would likely have far more severe impacts to the game than we might initially think. Especially if such changes to DR end up affecting what CC gets applied to us. Not only in terms of enemies chain-CCing us to death (See: Fighting the Deathclaw Elite Hunt target as a class with only a single damage type) or being trivialized by chain-CC, but also massive implications for PvP content, where even with the current DR BLU would be pretty dumb in because of the sheer variety of CC's they have available (Petrify, Deep Freeze, Stun, Silence, Bind, Paralyze, Blind, Heavy etc) would allow them to chain-CC as is by just using different effects with different DR stacks.

Not only that, but in the practical sense of their CC, most of it is just a set up for their combo bonuses, after which it is removed. So it's not as if for gameplay reasons they are required to keep all of their CC intact, if there are alternative ways of allowing them the ability to set up their combos that would not rely on having to affect targets with CC.

Though, it's not as if they would need to lose all CC effects, or have them be all limited in use, just merely tuning down of various skills that would see a lot of common usage (For example, The Ram's Breath)

[Kabooa]

Personally, I see a Debuff, Skill Chain, and Magic Burst system modernized to FF14 being something worth looking into. The systems and concept discussion of FF11 with friends of mine was far more entertaining than actually playing that game, and it'd be interesting to see if such a system could be implemented into FF14's more structured content.

Putting a majority of these "Starters" on Tanks, Supporty DPS, and Healers while putting the "Breakers" on the DPS is also a healthy way of sharing damage responsibilities for party content, while including expensive / costly solo alternatives so that any individual job can do their cool stuff when in the overworld as well, where resource cost doesn't matter, or during encounters when properly supported by a team.

And this relates directly back to Blue Mage as it could be retrofitted into that Supporty DPS who fills the "Starter" requirement for many different jobs, or at least has the capability to support such a notion with its Load Out selection.

Got more physical? Load up on skills that enable Slashing, Piercing, and Blunt breakers to occur. More magical? You can handle that too. From a gameplay perspective, the Blue Mage is therefore less concerned about its own burst windows and instead focused around enabling others. Raid Burst windows may sync up, but each Job also has a burst window that doesn't so neatly sync up to the 120 second set up.

Machinists cycle every 60, Black Mage's every 90, a Blue Mage built into this system is always working up the next big thing practically every 30 seconds.

I'd play that.