As an FFXI player, thank you for Limited Jobs and BLU SE

[whiskeybravo]

You have a knack for consistently not understanding what I've been saying at several points. Like... did you even read what they stated? They made themselves out to be a victim when it's not even true. You can look at the very first response in this thread and many others, you know, the ones getting upvoted being as rude as possible for merely suggesting I enjoy what SE did here. They aren't the victim.

Secondly, I don't give a rats butt if there is a consensus opinion, the criticism I've had is the usage of the like system, not that there is a majority and minority. The system hurts discussion when it's already decided by likes.

I don't think there is a conspiracy? Like I've never implied otherwise.

I don't see anybody claiming to be a victim, that's just your interpretation for arguments sake as far as I can tell. Even if we are to go so far as to say there are victims in this situation, the victims certainly wouldn't be the ones who got what they wanted. That's never the case, is it?

But that's all beside the point. BLU is objectively broken. From EXP exploits to afk BLUs getting carried by lv70 friends to lol130 potency. It's pretty obvious to most of us that SE missed the mark, and it was obvious well before BLU ever launched. The # of likes, or lack there of, did not decide the community's tone on BLU - SE did that themselves.

[Saefinn]

No, it really isn't. Good design compliments the system it uses to reach the end goal. Let's make a checklist.

Then I think there's a misunderstanding over what's meant by 'subjective'. But I won't split hairs on the difference further, but the reason I brought it up is because it was claimed that FFXI was "objectively bad" to dismiss any positive comments on the game, when that's not how the term "objective" works. By no means should "subjective" devalue anybody's opinion either, because there could be a lot of weight behind it and some opinions have more value than others.

But on the points you make, I expect not everybody will agree on whether they are bad, as I have seen a divide in opinions among people. For example, I like the idea that FATEs didn't get the boost, because I grew tired of FATEs a long time ago and tried to put myself through them through each relic release and hated it and was worried FATE grinding would be the way I'd need to level up again. It was also why Eureka disappointed me.

That said you do raise points I agree on and I think there are things that could be built on for SE to improve, so I'm not among those who're in the mindset this is all a disaster, but I certainly agree there needs to be changes for more people to be satisfied and for me to be more satisfied with it too. I am hoping this was meant as a means to get people's feedback on the job as was the impression I got pre-4.5, in which case, they've got oodles of it.

[QT_Melon]

But that's all beside the point. BLU is objectively broken. From EXP exploits to afk BLUs getting carried by lv70 friends to lol130 potency. It's pretty obvious to most of us that SE missed the mark, and it was obvious well before BLU ever launched. The # of likes, or lack there of, did not decide the community's tone on BLU - SE did that themselves.

Umm explain, unless you mean BLU in a party with other Blue mages afk, and in that instance getting to level 50 was really just a side thing since it's fairly obvious the real grind was really the primal spells, for whatever reason?

# of likes isn't a solid indicator. What percentage of the actual userbase really uses this forum for proper feedback, not to mention the many that were banned?

I get quite a bit of the complaints but I just wanted to counter the above because it's pretty much hyperbole, and would rather more well reasoned arguments prevail though I don't know how many devs will really want to read 142 posts of generally recycled arguments.

[SWB]

If they made another level 70 dungeon this patch instead of blue mage, that dungeon would have more shelf life than blue mage, as it would be relevant as long as you needed expert/ 70 roulette.

The issue with blue mage isn't that it's not fun. People are free to enjoy whatever they'd like.

The issue is a big majority of players not okay with how blue mage was implemented, and are scared further jobs will get the same treatment even though this game is fully capable of making them work if they chose to, and they're upset that even though the community was begging them to stop terrible rng grinds For atma, or relic steps, square enix then goes and give us a job which is the definition of what we've asked to stop doing.

The other side of the argument are people saying "if you don't like it, don't play it" which is a redundant argument, as this game has literally failed before because of its disconnect between what we as customers enjoy, and what they're telling us to enjoy.

And lastly, if you like ff11 blue mage, go play ff11 blue mage. It's a lot of fun and works for the system it existed in, but it does not work in 14

[Awha]

This is just my opinion and I truly understand why some may dislike BLU but for me personally as content I must say I have been enjoying myself greatly. I know I am working harder and not smarter when it comes to leveling, and not using optimal skills but for me that is part of the fun. BLU is a pure mess around and have fun piece of content that my friends and I have been having a blast. That is not to say I wish for them to ignore the complaints of others and I do hope with time they answer the wishes of others and provide them with fully fleshed out job. I just personally hope they do not gut the current implementation.

[Valdegarde]

This is just my opinion and I truly understand why some may dislike BLU but for me personally as content I must say I have been enjoying myself greatly. I know I am working harder and not smarter when it comes to leveling, and not using optimal skills but for me that is part of the fun. BLU is a pure mess around and have fun piece of content that my friends and I have been having a blast. That is not to say I wish for them to ignore the complaints of others and I do hope with time they answer the wishes of others and provide them with fully fleshed out job. I just personally hope they do not gut the current implementation.

That's one of the nicest, positive things I've seen about this current debate. Thank you for sharing your thoughts sir, it's a breath of fresh air. It would make me happy if more people could find it in themselves to be open like this.

[Luciano_Bozzelli]

This is just my opinion and I truly understand why some may dislike BLU but for me personally as content I must say I have been enjoying myself greatly. I know I am working harder and not smarter when it comes to leveling, and not using optimal skills but for me that is part of the fun. BLU is a pure mess around and have fun piece of content that my friends and I have been having a blast. That is not to say I wish for them to ignore the complaints of others and I do hope with time they answer the wishes of others and provide them with fully fleshed out job. I just personally hope they do not gut the current implementation.

This is the nail on the coffin with how I feel. I mean, look at how much fun we had in this Syrcus Tower!!
https://youtu.be/qZ8MiG_npv4

[Phoenicia]

Snippity snip

Holy poop mate,you're getting overly defensive and are dragging irrelevant groups of people (regardless or being a minority or majority) into something because you refuse to have the slightest bits of empathy. How is that not toxic, entitled, selfish or all combined? Why is this even becoming you vs us vs devs?

People complaining about BLU being limited isn't about raiding AT ALL, it is about seeing something with very good potential for fun, the very same thing you want, being blocked into irrelevance.

NOTHING says you can't have your little fun of learning spells from monsters and and that crappy carnival and STILL have the job function as a normal one. We Both can have our fun. You in your "casual" thing and me in my "not casual".... "thing".

BLU is broken, and it's the bad kind of broken. You don't want one in your group.

BLU average potency is crap. Yes some spells can do 420 potency but the require a GCD of 90 or no damage before them. Add to that the lack or the most important stat, weapon damage, and it takes years to kill things.

Suicide spells are bad. No matter what they do. Solo or group content. They are fun to use though. I would see it padding nicely if used at the end of an encounter.

The tank "stance" is horrid. It's a casters in casting gear. 40% damage reduction and you still take more than twice what a tank would... without their tank stance. And the cost is 70 flipping percent DPS reduction on already abysmally low potency spells. Heck, we tanks refuse to enter our tank stance AT ALL and it barely hits us for 25% throughput.

White Wind is cool and can be too strong on a DPS. But the MP cost is steep. Also you can stick a CD on it and it's no stronger than Divine Veil or Mantra.

There are many ways both sides of the players could benefit. All the BLU "defenders" sound to me is: "I finally have something I like and you don't, it's mine and you can't have it." When in reality all we're saying: "why half a cookie when we could have it whole?".

This is the nail on the coffin with how I feel. I mean, look at how much fun we had in this Syrcus Tower!!
https://youtu.be/qZ8MiG_npv4

Back in ARR we did a class only Syrcus Tower (as in no job crystals). We did Only 24 WAR and we did 1 DPS alliance, 1 healer alliance and 1 tank alliance. I did 8 WAR Ravana kills. Xenosys Vex did 8 WAR raids for too many fights to count. Heck,an "all arcanist" O1S kill was done (5 Summoners and 3 Scholars where titan pets tanked). All of those were "most fun we've had"..... For the first time we did it, then it's just "been there done that". Wouldn't make any of the jobs(classes in case of no job crystal) the most fun job. So I don't see where you're trying to go other than "this was REALLY fun."... I don't expect you to have a "can't wait for my 23 BLU buddies to do this again" for the rest of the patch.

[QT_Melon]

As I said before Blue Mage if you're going to have as a limited job should have been Game Genie for 2.0 content - be able to break it and cheese it in ways you couldn't before before.

You can already cheese content with unsynced groups. Blue Mage should have been the solo class that could do it at its level, not unsynced later down the road. If anything, Blue Mage sorely reminds me of CC spells in our arsenal in regular jobs that are shelved because the devs decided to make end game resistant to about everything.

I don't mind the suicide spells BUT, it shouldn't be a mechanic that causes us to be punished for it, ie not learning a spell due to death (where maybe later spells would counteract it).

I really wished there was a PVP mode for Blue Mages just for hilarity.

[whiskeybravo]

Umm explain, unless you mean BLU in a party with other Blue mages afk, and in that instance getting to level 50 was really just a side thing since it's fairly obvious the real grind was really the primal spells, for whatever reason?

# of likes isn't a solid indicator. What percentage of the actual userbase really uses this forum for proper feedback, not to mention the many that were banned?

I get quite a bit of the complaints but I just wanted to counter the above because it's pretty much hyperbole, and would rather more well reasoned arguments prevail though I don't know how many devs will really want to read 142 posts of generally recycled arguments.

Not sure what you are trying to "counter". The # of likes comment is related to OP's impression that forum discussion and tone are guided by people's psychological desire to seek attention and get Likes, which eventually devolves into toxic behavior and sets up a sort of negative feedback loop. Which I don't doubt has some credence "in general", but it's certainly not the elephant it's being made out to be as plenty of toxicity gets called out around here.