Drk: worst designed class

[Hierro]

I hope someone is reading the community feedback and realizes that simply making dark knight the poster child for 5.0 isn't a fix. Say what you want about 3.x dark knight, but people enjoyed it.

Did people play DRK because they truly enjoyed it, or did they play 3.X DRK because it was meta, and PLD as a third option simply wasn't viable? There was a GROSS discrepancy between dark knight DPS and paladin DPS in every patch cycle of 3.X, it's not fair to draw a comparison between pick rates from different expansions.

Can you be certain people would be equally as fond of 3.X DRK if PLD in the same time could block magic, have access to its current iteration of cover, and do equal DPS?

[Chrono_Rising]

Did people play DRK because they truly enjoyed it, or did they play 3.X DRK because it was meta, and PLD as a third option simply wasn't viable?

I played it because I found it to be the most enjoyable of the three options. A number of people I had met in game also felt the same. But of course this information would be difficult to determine without polling done at the time. Despite paladin being an actual hindrence in 3.x in many circumstances, people still ran it and played it. Despite not being meta it saw a similar play rate, but not a similar clear rate pointing to the need for adjustments of some sort. Contrast with now, Dark Knight is capable of clearing content, but is being run less than half of the expected rate.

There was a GROSS discrepancy between dark knight DPS and paladin DPS in every patch cycle of 3.X, it's not fair to draw a comparison between pick rates from different expansions.

There is no reason it wouldn't be considered fair. This point must be justified. Despite paladin being almost certainly the lesser of the two options in HW its funny that looking at the play rate people played paladin at a rate which would be considered similar to dark knights. Despite paladin's status in 3.x people still played it based on pick rate. Contrast to the situation now, Dark Knight is certain viable in every sense of the word, yet people aren't playing.

Play rate didn't mean paladin didn't need adjustments, but it does mean that people enjoyed the playstyle which was, by and large, untouched in 4.x. We saw some adjustments to our dot, and a small adjustment to our rotation to take enmity out of the equation, but nothing really changed. Block now blocks magic, cover reduces damage, casts are no longer interrupted on a tank who gets hit for a living, all changes which were necessary but no massive changes to our rotation other than adding a second burst window which thematically fit with the class.

Can you be certain people would be equally as fond of 3.X DRK if PLD in the same time could block magic, have access to its current iteration of cover, and do equal DPS?

Certainty isn't where I would set the bar on most things outside of mathematics. Nothing is certain. However, if reprisal were still a dark knight exclusive, had an int debuff, had its animations restored, as well as gaining its stormblood abilities, and having the QoL adjustments that we have waited 3 years for, along with the kit adjustments we've seen this expansion, and as well as other improvements the community is still waiting on... Then yeah I would be pretty happy to play dark knight again and I think most people would enjoy the class more.

[Lyth]

[...]

This is revisionist history, but I'll forgive you that because a lot of it predates your character.

In Heavensward, there were no raiding "DRK mains" or "PLD mains". You were a PLD/DRK, and you were expected to switch depending on the fight. In early Heavensward, DRK was actually thought to be a liability, and the forums were full of threads like this one. A3S/A4S was really the turning point where people started more seriously looking at DRK.

Even still, PLD still had room to excel. Pretty much everyone progged A7S on PLD instead of DRK. There was a minimum of one PLD WF in every tier in Heavensward. And the dps discrepency between DRK and PLD was nothing compared to the advantage that WAR held over the other two tanks. Interestingly, the closest that the dps difference between DRK and WAR has ever been was at 4.0, prior to all WAR's unnecessary buffs this expansion. And even there, it was advantage WAR.

WAR was what you played because people picked the job. DRK/PLD was what you played because people picked the player. There was a certain satisfaction in just about outperforming your WAR co-tank, and knowing full well that you had to be playing at least 20-30 percentiles higher to do so. "How on earth are you beating the WAR?" was one of the best reactions to get.

Would people have played DRK in 3.x if PLD could block magic? Absolutely. When you played DRK on a physical fight, you were generally at a cooldown disadvantage compared to PLD. Your extra dps was a reward for performing nearly double the number of actions per minute of another tank (WAR was BLM level slow). There were enough little things (an exclusive gap closer offering you unparalleled mobility, Reprisal, Delirium) to give us our own little niche and offset our weaknesses. What did Stormblood take away? Our uniqueness.

Besides, DRK has history behind it. Jobs like WHM, BLM, and even BLU draw interest because they're a part of Final Fantasy's blood. These are jobs with a twenty to thirty year legacy behind them. We grew up with them. That's the reason why people care, even now.

[Nedkel]

DRK is still unique class to play and really strong to be honest, the thing is DRK has limited amount of resources which limits his potential.
Simple increasing the amount of resources gained will fix him easily, no matter he has worse cooldowns, when he is able to pull off so much damage and use shield all the time basically, they could take the cooldowns away from him, he will still have super strong design as long as he has resources to use.
We need more blood and mana, thats all what we need.

Maybe remove the mana regen penalty, make blood price and blood weapon into one cooldown ability or even toggle costing HP each second, that would fix everything.

[MagiusNecros]

DRK was more fun in HW. Very button mashy and a fast fluid reactive Tank class. I enjoyed it.

Now it's just clunk city where every other ability works against each other.

I also enjoyed the Dodge tank combo we used to have and the 15 seconds of spamming DA Abyssal in mass pulls.

Then they took that away and gave it to Steel Cyclone and thus I play as WAR now.

Maybe in 5.0 they will boost Hard Slash potency by 10. Should fix everything. Clearly.

[Shurrikhan]

Did people play DRK because they truly enjoyed it, or did they play 3.X DRK because it was meta, and PLD as a third option simply wasn't viable? There was a GROSS discrepancy between dark knight DPS and paladin DPS in every patch cycle of 3.X, it's not fair to draw a comparison between pick rates from different expansions.

Can you be certain people would be equally as fond of 3.X DRK if PLD in the same time could block magic, have access to its current iteration of cover, and do equal DPS?

I leveled Dark Knight last of all my tanks. I swapped to primarily Dark Knight because I found it more fun. Paladin was a non-option in most fights, but I had no qualms with Warrior or the power it put out. I just found Dark Knight more interesting.

I just wish I could say that still felt true outside of BW-Quietus spam situations, which are still pathetic compared to IR-Deci spams.

[Ekimmak]

I leveled Dark Knight last of all my tanks. I swapped to primarily Dark Knight because I found it more fun. Paladin was a non-option in most fights, but I had no qualms with Warrior or the power it put out. I just found Dark Knight more interesting.

I just wish I could say that still felt true outside of BW-Quietus spam situations, which are still pathetic compared to IR-Deci spams.

It feels like too few enemies make it not really worth it, but too many will break the poor DRK in half, and in the end, it still feels not-as-strong as IR-Decimate/Steel Cyclone.

[shao32]

DRK is still unique class to play and really strong to be honest, the thing is DRK has limited amount of resources which limits his potential.
Simple increasing the amount of resources gained will fix him easily, no matter he has worse cooldowns, when he is able to pull off so much damage and use shield all the time basically, they could take the cooldowns away from him, he will still have super strong design as long as he has resources to use.
We need more blood and mana, thats all what we need.

Maybe remove the mana regen penalty, make blood price and blood weapon into one cooldown ability or even toggle costing HP each second, that would fix everything.

That's a terrible idea, increasing the resources generation will increase the number of dark arts per minute we have to cast to the point we even need to double weave dark passenger to dealt with the resources surplus, this will just make the double weaving problem even more severe and turn it to a triple weaving when we have to mitigate half of the time.
DRK already have problems of overflow of MP and blood in certain delirium windows so no, more resources that our skills can manage it's worse in all sense and will make DRK become a brainless overflowing tank, and I don't know how "taking away" his coldowns will help or being a good thing at all, TBN is good but alone is useless against TB.

[Nedkel]

stuff

I am all for triple weaving and using all actions all the time. More resources mean more mana and blood to use, more energetic gameplay and more button mash, this will be excellent.
This class has been designed for button mash, you cant say it should not, its like saying a truck shouldnt have so many gears and brakes to work with because i dont like it, well there are normal cars to drive also if you catch the grip.

[shao32]

I am all for triple weaving and using all actions all the time. More resources mean more mana and blood to use, more energetic gameplay and more button mash, this will be excellent.
This class has been designed for button mash, you cant say it should not, its like saying a truck shouldnt have so many gears and brakes to work with because i dont like it, well there are normal cars to drive also if you catch the grip.

no one here sugest DRK should be slower, part of his identity was being a fast paced tank and im all for it, but one thing is being a fast-fluid job and other enchancing the current awful desing since we cliping some animation with double weaving i don't wanna try triple weaving, in fact i don't think this game support triple weaving in any degree, animations will need to be so short that you can't apreciated and thats another charm of DRK who have one of the best animation kit of the game.