Waved or Reduced MP cost for Magic combo's

[DeadRiser]

I won't lie, the nukes are a lot of fun.

What is really starting to annoy me is that when I select a spell then try to select a target (like for caravan runs) I keep targeting the chocos/npc with the spell and NOT the enemies. >.>

[Albio]

MP regen = TP gain

MP costs are high, but so if your damage output.

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

This is true, but you can gain enough TP in seconds to initiate another WS or Combo. Running out of MP on mage, you have to stand there for quite a while before you can nuke again. It's not balanced. If melee can spam combos and WS then mage should be able to spam nukes and combos as well. Especially since the damage is comparable. Melee aren't doing that much less than mage with combos. Once again, mage is gimped DPS. If mage was doing six or seven times the damage with a nuke combo as melee was with a WS combo then it would be one thing to have us sitting around for a minute or two waiting to nuke again. It would balance out in the long run, but right now, it's still SE <3 melee and </3 mage.

Edit:Also 90% reduction is too much imo, maybe 50% for the second and third spells.

[Zigirus_Essan]

I'd love to see an actual parse of THM burst nukes with MP regen after the fact Vs typical physical damage.

After spending a lot of time doing company leves today on various level 50 classes setting the mobs all at the same level. I feel THM is on par with all the other classes in it's own way. The following numbers are purely done by eye (hence why I'd like to see an actual acurate parse) but the logic is sound.

Doing, say, the thunder line of combo spells on a single target, excluding parsimony and excruciate, you can easily pump out 3000 damage in a matter of 15(at most, probably less than 15 seconds but I'm being liberal) seconds or less for 1134 MP. on my THM, this is ~ 1/3rd of my MP. Recovering that takes ~ 19 seconds from the max - 1134.

So to recap, in roughly 34 seconds a THM without using any bonus abilities to assist MP conservation or boosting damage for MP longevity, they can deal about 3000 damage (give or take) for 1134 MP.

Looking at my MRD, I gain 400 TP per swing. it takes atleast 4 (16.8 seconds) swings to generate the TP needed for Brutal Swing > Maim > Godsbane combo. I do roughly 250 damage a swing (no ifrits axe) so that's 1000 damage over 16.8 seconds. Brutal swing hits for usually 400, maim for 500, and Godsbane for 600-750 if I don't include any outside buffs to increase attack power. Total that's about 2500 depending on if all hits from Godsbane lands. Then I can wait another 16.8 seconds to build up TP for another combo (sans Godsbane since it's already been used) which makes another 1000 damage roughly for that second round of TP building. 33.6 seconds not including animation lock, auto-attack delays from abilities and positioning time.

Looking at these very crude numbers, the damage output of both classes are about the same. MRD gets a little bit more out at the same time, but my THM can unleash even more damage without having to wait for MP regen since I still have 2/3rd's of a pool left to use BEFORE regen even takes place. And even then, WS timers get in the way of consistently using the same combo immediately once TP is available. This doesn't include that THM has the edded benefit of being at range and in safe zones from melee range AoE.

Point is. Sure, you can blow a crap ton of MP at one time and it looks like "crap, I can't keep Mp to deal damage for crap", but when it all pans out in a damage over time scenario, you might be standing around regening MP for a bit, but the crap load of damage you have dealt up to that point puts you in serious competition with other Damage dealers, and of course the safety of being at range.

and that's not even touching AoE fire spells, which can pull off 3000-4500 damage in one combo per mob for almost over 1500 MP.

I'd love to get some real numbers, but I think people should seriously think about the damage over time scenario compared physical damage dealers. I think you'll find it's all balanced and proper.

If you don't like standing around waiting for MP back on THM, go play something else. It's a burst DD class.

[indira]

Effective Mana management is going to be the defining mark of a good THM player. At least, that is what I believe.

so 3500mp pool, your third spell in combo uses 781mp. management dont matter when you using a quarter of your mp on 1 spell.

[Coglin]

Yeah, Its is a little out of balance, that the it takes so much MPs. I am okay with them leaving the MP cost on the abilities individually, if they would as was mentioned, give some sort of savings in the MP when used in a combo.

DoW get the second ability free of charge with no TP cost what so ever. in my opinion, thats justification enough to toss DoMs a bone on this one.

[Dreadnought]

i +1 this
i feel the MP costs are too high and im having a hard time even soloing.

my melee classes have an easier time putting out damage and much more consistently due to the TP cost waved for combos. i do not like that.

[Jinrya-Geki]

I need to fight one of the following.

Ifrit, Batrall, or Ogre. If my damage to them is higher than 88 from before I might be ok with this cost.

If I do the same lame damage for this high cost... I am probably going to walk out after 1.21, if by then I don't do better damage for less mp as a black mage. Tired of waiting for me to be a DD Disciple of magic, healing sucks.

[Dreadnought]

I need to fight one of the following.

Ifrit, Batrall, or Ogre. If my damage to them is higher than 88 from before I might be ok with this cost.

If I do the same lame damage for this high cost... I am probably going to walk out after 1.21, if by then I don't do better damage for less mp as a black mage. Tired of waiting for me to be a DD Disciple of magic, healing sucks.

lol i agree i hate healing.
im reaaaally hoping BLM saves the party aspect of magic nuking. i refuse to ever kite a pudding again as long as i live.

[Baxter]

I completely agree. Please lower the timer on Parsimony, increase duration of sanguine rite, and change necrogenesis to damage restores MP

[Zigirus_Essan]

Tonight doing Ifrit I was playing on my THM for the first time with my LS, just to mess around as we re-learned the fight. THM damage when unresisted is pretty amazing compared to just straight physical damage dealing. I can easily deal 1200 damage in a single thunder chain without magic crits right after Ifrit uses a TP move. Most of the melee's in my LS at most could get off around 550-600 damage doom spikes (non-combo). otherwise the most damage they could do in a full combo (provided they could get it off) was around 500-600 at best. including the damage dealt for TP gain.

And since Ifrit has clear moments of staying still and not acting, you can get MP back relatively reliably with no real problems to maintain damage.

Also, I solo'd A spike pre-helfire in about 15-30 seconds depending on crits. Our LS now consistently gets all 4 spikes down with time to spare before Hellfire. This is in large part to THM's ability to burst things down quickly and effectively.

In all honesty I think MP consumption and damage potential of THM is fine. You just have to play it well, and managed.

If Mp consumption was lowered, damage would need to be lowered in large part as well. I rather it stay the way it is.

Edit: Changed my wording to clear up possible confusion.