[Spoilers] The Patch 4.5 Lore Discussion Thread!

[ChaoticCrimson]

I'd have to check my lorebook again, but didn't that thing go boom with Ultima Weapon? If they were going to use it again I figured that they might have shown a mysterious hand picking it up or something?

To be fair, we all were led to believe Gaius also was caught up in Ultima's boom. Really, anything's possible.

[zuzu-bq]

I think the best way they can resolve Gaius' survival is by never explaining in details how he did survive. Any explanation would feel corny or unnecessary at this point.

[CaesarCV]

To be fair, we all were led to believe Gaius also was caught up in Ultima's boom. Really, anything's possible.

Ouch. Got me there. >_<'

I don't think they're going to bother with the Heart of Sabik again though. It was more or less only used in 2.0 to have a through-line with the original plot.

I think the best way they can resolve Gaius' survival is by never explaining in details how he did survive. Any explanation would feel corny or unnecessary at this point.

I'm of mixed minds here...you have a point since it would be corny, but they probably should have something for us poor lore folk...

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

There's a lot to account for here but let's be frank: we were led to believe that there was a darker ending in store when Urianger seemingly betrayed the Scions in favor of helping the WoD. Don't forget it was a conversation between he and Elidibus that convinced him to intervene. **Spoiler** Let's also not forget about Ukukalhai who is the WoL from the shard that became the Void. Or at least one of them. (Its hinted that the shards that fell did so to an imbalance of either light or dark--if Ukukalhai is really from the Void then Ascians can also move through time because Voidsent have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years. Either that or there is more than one Voidshard.) Elidibus actually rescued him from that world and brought him to the First. ** More Spoiler ** When I saw Thancred in the Shadowbringers trailer with the child in the robe I immediately assumed it was Ukukalhai. It may not be but thats where my mind went. In have a gut feeling that in Shadowbringers we'll be shard hopping. But I guess we'll see.

[CaesarCV]

There's a lot to account for here but let's be frank: we were led to believe that there was a darker ending in store when Urianger seemingly betrayed the Scions in favor of helping the WoD. Don't forget it was a conversation between he and Elidibus that convinced him to intervene. **Spoiler** Let's also not forget about Ukukalhai who is the WoL from the shard that became the Void. Or at least one of them. (Its hinted that the shards that fell did so to an imbalance of either light or dark--if Ukukalhai is really from the Void then Ascians can also move through time because Voidsent have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years. Either that or there is more than one Voidshard.) Elidibus actually rescued him from that world and brought him to the First. ** More Spoiler ** When I saw Thancred in the Shadowbringers trailer with the child in the robe I immediately assumed it was Ukukalhai. It may not be but thats where my mind went. In have a gut feeling that in Shadowbringers we'll be shard hopping. But I guess we'll see.

I don't have access to my lorebook at the moment, but I don't think that Ukukalhai was a Warrior of Light in any capacity. He was a refugee from the Thirteenth Shard that became the void though. Elidibus transplanted his soul here I believe and if I remember correctly he did feel guilty knowing that he's probably inhabiting someone else's body on the prime at the moment. He even knows a bit about the circumstances that caused its destruction. I honestly doubt that he'll be a huge character for this expansion. He's connected to an old plotline that hasn't come up in a long time, and this is supposed to be a big progression of the Zodiark/Hydelyn arc. Also, the figure Thancred is holding appears to be a girl (although her appearance is purposely obscured.) It's probably the same figure as in this image.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

I don't have access to my lorebook at the moment, but I don't think that Ukukalhai was a Warrior of Light in any capacity. He was a refugee from the Thirteenth Shard that became the void though. Elidibus transplanted his soul here I believe and if I remember correctly he did feel guilty knowing that he's probably inhabiting someone else's body on the prime at the moment. He even knows a bit about the circumstances that caused its destruction. I honestly doubt that he'll be a huge character for this expansion. He's connected to an old plotline that hasn't come up in a long time, and this is supposed to be a big progression of the Zodiark/Hydelyn arc. Also, the figure Thancred is holding appears to be a girl (although her appearance is purposely obscured.) It's probably the same figure as in this image.

I noticed that too. However considering that Elidibus will likely be playing a large role in the next patch if not the new expansion, the connection is not far fetched. I'm going by the dialogue for that arc but Ukukalhai was a potential warrior of light because of his Echo but was too young to do anything about the destruction of that world. Considering Solus and Gaius are both mainly from 1.0/2.0 you really can't dismiss anyone at this point. And Ukukalhai calls Elidibus his Master (I'll have to watch the cutscenes again but I'm fairly certain his master ends up being Elidibus as the final reveal). Just saying. Yeah its unlikely but certainly not that much of a stretch, even if its not him in the trailer (and its probably not--the voice was very feminine too i think).

Also as for Yugiri dying, she took a bad fall during her failed assassination attempt on Zenos. I wouldn't necessarily give that credence to her demise. Or anyones demise the way things are going.

[Anonymoose]

This is going a tad off the rails in terms of claims without evidence; we don't want to get FFWiki levels of {{citation needed}}.

Here's what I remember:

On one hand, Gaius survived two large explosions from the Ultima weapon (one which threw him out of the cockpit and one right on top of his face) before the camera cut away from a third explosion while he was still standing - and that Gaius, Regula, and Varis have all shown us that a Garlean can be lifted into a passing transport in seconds (1.0 in Mor Dhona, 1.23 at the Halone's stone, 3.0 in the Sea of Clouds).

On the other, Unukalhai lamented that he was chosen to bear the Light - but left without time, company, power, or opportunity to do anything with it against the overwhelming onslaught of Igeyorhm's machinations on a world already imbalanced by the Dark. That's why Elidibus set us up - sad kid who lost his world to a Flood because he had no strong comrades would keep that pesky sucker, the Warrior of Light, from asking questions before the job was done. (Moreover the devs confirmed that Elidibus kept Unukalhai in stasis for millennia before playing him as a wildcard, and that's why he still knows so little and acts so childish comparatively.) Like the Warriors of Darkness, whether they had to possess people/corpses to function here did not ever come up.

Overcome by an immense force against which I could mount no defense, I had resigned myself to death's inexorable embrace...until my master intervened to save me. Mayhap events would have unfolded differently if I had been blessed with comrades to fight at my side, or if there had been a teacher to learn from and emulate... But there was not, and I must accept the futility of wishing it were otherwise.

The champions who fought upon that ruined star were corrupted by the captured essence of the primals─twisted into incarnations of Darkness. Those of the Light who stood to oppose them were but suckling babes in comparison. I am told there were more like me, young and touched by the Echo, but the Darkness consumed all ere we learned of each other's existence. Even the servants of the power which annihilated my world could find naught to salvage in the emptiness which remained.

As Urianger suggested, I possess the gift of the Echo...though it is of a nature different from yours. Regardless, I would use my gift for the selfsame purpose─the salvation of this star. And nothing─nothing─poses a greater threat to the world than the proliferation of primal-harnessing technology. This I know only too well.

...What I am about to divulge concerns the fate of another star entirely. On this other world, a magick was devised that allowed the realm's champions to use a stone known as “auracite” to contain the power of primals. So armed, these heroic souls conquered god after god, oblivious to their weapon's fatal imperfection: its propensity to bleed primal energies. And with each victory, the heroes changed, transforming at last into fiends of endless appetite. Insatiable in their hunger for aether, they ultimately went to war over the star's ever-dwindling life force...

...And fought until there was nothing left. Thus, as Urianger so astutely observed, when I am faced with those who rush to embrace power unchecked, I lose all semblance of rationality. Know that my master, too, cares deeply about the fate of this star. I am his servant─his instrument─sent here to ensure that the same tragedy does not consume another world.

I was born of a different star─a child whose power of the Echo was too feeble to save his dying world... A child, who, unlike you, never became a Warrior of Light. When all I knew stood on the brink of destruction, I was yet half-grown. Had I been born but a handful of years earlier, history may have written a different tale; the seeds of other heroes that had yet to fully sprout may not have withered and perished. The star I failed to save is known to you now as “the void.”

Though [PLAYER] knew not that I spoke of my homeland, I have explained to [GENDERED PRONOUN] before the cause of its ruin. A magick was devised to contain a defeated primal's might within a stone known as “auracite.” And the energies which bled from this imperfect vessel gradually corrupted the champions who wielded it. These heroes became slaves to an insatiable hunger for aether, eventually transforming into hideous fiends. And none who clung to the faint traces of Light were strong enough to oppose them. The demons next turned upon each other in a war which drained the land's aether in ever greater amounts, until one day the star was suddenly swallowed in a flood of Darkness. An entire world unmade in an instant. The voidsent you encounter here in this realm are the twisted remnants of once-mortal beings who gnaw on what motes of life force remain... And as I lay dying, beaten and broken in my failed last stand, 'twas a white-robed Ascian who found my tormented spirit and bore me away to the rift betwixt worlds. Elidibus has been my master ever since.

At my mentor's feet did I learn of the nature of reality: of the existence of mirrored worlds and the eternal struggle between Dark and Light. Sudden and overwhelming superiority for either side will shatter the balance, and the world in question will be returned to the void by a calamity beyond imagining. As the self-appointed custodian of this balance, my master warned me that the Source─the first of all worlds─slips perilously close to oblivion.

I chose to join my master, and act as his instrument on this star. The tragedy that befell my home cannot be repeated─I will see this world saved.

...And yet I hesitated at the most crucial of moments. What right have I to stand alongside a true Warrior of Light?

I know that should I ever falter, [PLAYER] and the others will be there to support me...or steer me back onto the right path if needed.

In the days leading up to my world's destruction, I was entirely alone. I never knew what it was to have such comrades...

Basically, Unukalhai was a sort of trump card for Elidibus. He put him in stasis (stasis is the key here), and held onto him until just the right time to use him. “Oh, a calamity is approaching? Time to play the trump card!” So his origin is very old, but he was in stasis, so he’s very immature.

[CaesarCV]

This is going a tad off the rails in terms of claims without evidence; we don't want to get FFWiki levels of {{citation needed}}.

Sorry if I was ever misleading. I have to do most of my posting away from home at the moment due to holiday shenanigans, which makes it hard to access resources like the Lorebook or Garlond Tools. Thank you very much for the quotes! I haven't done that storyline in maybe 2 years now. I guess my memory of him talking sadly about how he's probably possessing a body here might have been a false one. That happens from time to time unfortunately. I'm still of the belief that the Scions had their souls/minds taken to another shard though. Unukalhai (of the strangely hard to spell name) could definitely appear in the next expansion, but I just feel a little skeptical he'll be terribly important since absolutely nothing from the Warring Triad plotline has actually been mentioned again. Sure Gaius came back up again, but he was mentioned a lot since his 'death', even during Stormblood itself. We'll see though.

On one hand, Gaius survived two large explosions from the Ultima weapon (one which threw him out of the cockpit and one right on top of his face) before the camera cut away from a third explosion while he was still standing - and that Gaius, Regula, and Varis have all shown us that a Garlean can be lifted into a passing transport in seconds (1.0 in Mor Dhona, 1.23 at the Halone's stone, 3.0 in the Sea of Clouds).

Hm...I'd be a little skeptical of reading too much into those sorts of capabilities. Villain escapes are one of those things that happen for more narrative reasons than in fiction ones. If they aren't supposed to die at this point in the plot, then teleportation or other methods work, and if they are supposed to die then they don't. Thordan slowly walking onto an airship is equivalent in a narrative sense to Garlean Magitek transport capabilities since both are just tools to get Villain A to Point B, and to make sure we can't kill them in that moment. It's the same reason that Stormtroopers in Star Wars are supposedly well trained enough for Old Ben Kenobi to recognize and mention it, but never hit the heroes. Narrative trumps in-universe logic in most works, FFXIV included.

That being said, 'airship escape' would be a fairly logical answer for how he managed to survive. They'll probably have some explanation...or just be coy/make a joke about it. Maybe he'll jump into a lead lined fridge to survive the blast...

[ChaoticCrimson]

Slightly changing the direction of the conversation, with the trailer and the new updates on the 4.5 site, I have to wonder what the mech boss in the last Ivalice raid is supposed to be. Is it something new? Or another analogue for a Lucavi like Rofocale? Adramma-mech??? (No, that one's just silly)

[zuzu-bq]

I'm of mixed minds here...you have a point since it would be corny, but they probably should have something for us poor lore folk...

I too have mixed feelings about it. If Oda-san manages to write something cool around it, I'd love it to death. Who knows we'll see that in Shadowbringer short stories! I think those would be a better format for this kind of side information that wouldn't be relevant being revealed out of nowhere in the MSQ. But I'm also a sucker for storytelling that leaves open spaces for imagination and creation of myths and legends and the XIV team have always been great about this. So I wouldn't mind if they never explained it.