Thread: [Spoilers] The Patch 4.5 Lore Discussion Thread!

Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Also, German Varis is a bit clearer with his goals:

So, wait, is this the patch where the last bastion of "Maybe we should trust Elidibus" finally falls? Even this sanitized "It's for the best for mortals, too!" assumption sounds like something that'd make all the roleplay and tumblr kids turn on him in an instant.

VARIS
The races will also return to their true form.
Each race has their own strengths an--

FANS
Hold up a sec. No more Miqo'te?

VARIS
No more Miqo'te, no more Au Ra, no more Vier-

FANS
[weapon draw, stoic nod]

I'm using some older quotes in the thread to organize my thoughts since my browser was being weird and I had somehow thought that page 3 was the last one. But I think some of the points are pretty pertinent anyway!

Originally Posted by Xie_Belvoule

It's obvious to me now what Varis' plan was, to create a world where everyone had the echo.

This doesn't sound like Varis's plan to me at all. He seems to be of a more...secular sort. In the previous patch he claimed to want to restore mankind to its rightful place in history, which leans more towards freeing them from outside influence like gods and ascians than some sort of echo based wonderland. If anything, it sounds more like Elidibus's. He claimed a long time ago (all the way back in the A Realm Reborn Patches) that if the Scions mastered the Echo they would be on the same side as him, whatever that means. That's part of why I thought that Aulus Mas Asina (sorry if I messed up the name) was Elidibus in disguise, since coming up with a way to give more people the Echo would be extremely useful to his goals. I was wrong about him being Elidibus admittedly, but the point still stands. Our White Robed buddy seems to have different goals and methods than the other Ascians, sometimes even seeming to work against their plans.

As to the whole 'create a world with no races' and such, I wouldn't be totally shocked if he was talking more generally about all bowing to Garlemald. Remember that Varis lead the Optimates faction over the Populares. He was (and probably still is to some extent) convinced of Garlean supremacy. That might have changed since he learned the truth about his country's origins, but I personally think he'll try to 'make Garlemald real' rather than abandon it entirely. He's talking seemingly to the Alliance in that scene, and likely requesting their surrender before the war really begins.

Originally Posted by Xie_Belvoule

Zodiark appears- check

I honestly got no real hint that it was necessarily Zodiark. If it was I feel like there would have been a bigger hint, like a gigantic dark crystal or something like that. Sure the voice was saying some sort of evil sounding stuff, but that could mean it was any ascian, or something else entirely. Not to mention that it tends to be shorthand in games and movies that 'Dark Gods' have deep, booming voices. This voice didn't really sound like that. I'm still skeptical that Zodiark will show up awake, because that kind of means that the Ascians have won, and mortal life is doomed.

Originally Posted by Xie_Belvoule

Zodiark will likely reveal that mama crystal isnt all she seems- check

This is admittedly a response to this idea in general. The 'Hydelyn is actually evil' seems to be a popular theory, but there's almost no evidence for it. The biggest point against it in my opinion comes from the Warriors of Darkness plotline. Arbert and his companions assumed that Hydeyn was evil and tricking them. They blamed her for the flood of light, and were willing to work with Elidibus to try and save their star by serving Zodiark instead. However, in the end, they were wrong. What saved their shard (although it seems like that might not be working out so hot) wasn't using the power of darkness or violence. Instead, it was asking Hydelyn for help. That would have been the perfect time to demonstrate her darker side, but instead she sacrificed both her corporeal vessel and more of her (extremely low) power to do her best to save the shard. That seems much more like the actions of a benevolent mother goddess than some masterminding tyrant. Sure, she kicked out Zodiark in the past, but much like classical mythology he had the world in complete primordial chaos, with apparently no mortal life.

Originally Posted by Theodric

I wonder how Gaius is going to play into all of this? That he survived the events of ARR is mysterious enough, though he also now apparently has the power to track down and slay Ascians. That in itself implies that someone or something is pulling his strings, though despite his noble intentions it may backfire since simply defeating all the Ascians risks bringing about disaster.

Hm...other than Gaius having the masks, there's really no evidence he's actually fully killing Ascians yet. That he can is taken as a given by lots of people, but I'm not totally sold on it. He definitely wants to, but an inability to permanently kill them is a perfect chance for him to try and get help from the Scions. Either way he's definitely trying, and seems to be being set up as something of a 'good' foil for Varis.

Originally Posted by Nightsword

If Gaius is using Ultimate weapon technology, he might be able to absorb Ascian souls like the Ultimate Weapon was able to absorb Primals.

Well, people have been wanting the Heart of Sabik to have some more relevance than a simple one-off plot device...