Gunblade job must be a DPS.

[shao32]

I fully support tanks and healers getting new classes this time around, as stormblood really was unfair, but I dont think its accurate to make this comparison. Damage dealers have notably more complex rotations as their only consistent responsibility is to damage things. This opens them up to more flexibility in themes as well.

Tanks and healers have more specific roles. They do have rotations, but they have to be simpler because they have other priorities during a fight. That means that no matter how different they try to make tanks, a large part of their kit always has to be aggro management and damage mitigation. Same with healers. That's why people ask where you would go. Paladins are better for physical enemies, dark knights for magical, and warriors try to heal through it all with more hp. There aren't too many other ways to build a class around surviving damage and feel unique.

You can easily make any new tank and healer unique like any DD, timers, consistency, how much you depend of you resources or your burst windows, sustained? Semi burst? Or big burst? Dot based meaby?, some kind of procs?how you desing the mitigations tools?, how much raw damage they will mitigate?, what is his frequency?, we desing it having many long recast strong coldownds or we make it limited but more consistent number of skills? Will cost gauge? MP? Meaby both? There is a plenty of combinations of all this questions to make any new tank or healer feel unique and fun.
the only limitation is you imagination, you are not more limited for being tank or a healer, the same way you can make some DD being based on heavy burst windows and make it different you can make mitigation tanks or shield healers work around that in different ways and have different dps rotation to work around.

Edit: btw PLD is not better against physical or WAR work around his high HP pool on defiance and self heals to survive, only DRK is bit better against magic outside of grit but all tanks are equally effective against any kind of damage.

[Jandor]

Gunblade job must be a DPS.

Nah, it must bee a tank.

[Symon17]

You can easily make any new tank and healer unique like any DD, timers, consistency, how much you depend of you resources or your burst windows, sustained? Semi burst? Or big burst? Dot based meaby?, some kind of procs

Those differences can exist in damage rotations, but non dps roles typically have simpler damage rotations because they can't just dps and dodge mechanics. A DPS goes into an encounter really only caring about performing their rotation properly while not dying. Tanks and healers still have to do this, but tanks need to manage skills and cooldowns in order to survive heavier hits, establish and maintain the most enmity, and swap for some fights. Likewise, healers have to heal through consistent party-wide damage while keeping everyone in good shape, throw out raises, and manage mp a little more than most. These things may not be necessary in every fight, but every tank and healer added has to have the ability to do these things.

That leads to every tank and healer first being designed to perform in that way. They do have differences in the ways they push dps while doing those things, but they share a "core" in a way that DPS jobs don't. That can be further seen in they way they implemented DRK and AST. Those jobs kinda felt like they started with a PLD and WHM base, then built up from there.

By comparison, when a DPS is added the only real requirement is to push damage at the same rate as others. Any defensive, healing, or utility skills included are totally optional and can be added in different ways and amounts to make them even more unique.

I don't say any of this to mean it's impossible to create something new for tanks and healers. It just seems to me that it's not a 1 to 1 comparison, and it is a bit harder to properly do. This seems especially true in a game like FFXIV, where combat is pretty inflexible (This encounter needs to play out exactly like this or everyone dies), and class design doesn't deviate much from traditional fantasy archetypes (Tanks are "warriors", mages wear dresses, etc.).

[Lumivyory]

A lot of people here mentioned BLU and even as the 3rd job for SB/SHB but the thing is we can't count BLU as either Shadowbringers' or Stormblood's job since it's gonna be available in ARR. So technically it's an ARR job.

[Vahlnir]

A lot of people here mentioned BLU and even as the 3rd job for SB/SHB but the thing is we can't count BLU as either Shadowbringers' or Stormblood's job since it's gonna be available in ARR. So technically it's an ARR job.

BLU is a SB job. It will be introduced in SB months before Shadowbringers is released. Yoshi P said it wasn't counted among the jobs coming then, too. It will only be able to do ARR content right away, but it's still a job being introduced in SB.

[XoanGrahm]

In fantasy, hammers are tied to dwarfs...which Final Fantasy XIV does not have.

Dwarves are confirmed to be the other beast tribe alongside No Mou in Shadowbringers

[shao32]

Those differences can exist in damage rotations, but non dps roles typically have simpler damage rotations because they can't just dps and dodge mechanics. A DPS goes into an encounter really only caring about performing their rotation properly while not dying. Tanks and healers still have to do this, but tanks need to manage skills and cooldowns in order to survive heavier hits, establish and maintain the most enmity, and swap for some fights. Likewise, healers have to heal through consistent party-wide damage while keeping everyone in good shape, throw out raises, and manage mp a little more than most. These things may not be necessary in every fight, but every tank and healer added has to have the ability to do these things.

That leads to every tank and healer first being designed to perform in that way. They do have differences in the ways they push dps while doing those things, but they share a "core" in a way that DPS jobs don't. That can be further seen in they way they implemented DRK and AST. Those jobs kinda felt like they started with a PLD and WHM base, then built up from there.

By comparison, when a DPS is added the only real requirement is to push damage at the same rate as others. Any defensive, healing, or utility skills included are totally optional and can be added in different ways and amounts to make them even more unique.

I don't say any of this to mean it's impossible to create something new for tanks and healers. It just seems to me that it's not a 1 to 1 comparison, and it is a bit harder to properly do. This seems especially true in a game like FFXIV, where combat is pretty inflexible (This encounter needs to play out exactly like this or everyone dies), and class design doesn't deviate much from traditional fantasy archetypes (Tanks are "warriors", mages wear dresses, etc.).

When you desing a DD is not only "dealt damage", you need to think the type of DD is, is mele or ranged? If is ranged is a caster or "ranged" (BRD-MCH)? That's they core since it's pretty important to desing encounters based on this, now we have that you have to desing the new DD to interact with the current ones like new tanks or new healers have to do too, you know sinergy between the jobs, and then choose what kind of damage will have, if they will have party buffs ect ect and addapt the other jobs with the new additions to make all of them relevant for the 4 slots they have on party.
they have some requeriments, right now for example the requeriments for adding a new DD will be not being melee since we have 4, being ranged since we have only 2 and meaby caster but that's force the machine a bit, and obviously the sinergy and all the stuff with his 9 brothers so is not limitless as you think.

BTW merry christmas ^^

[Lumivyory]

BLU is a SB job. It will be introduced in SB months before Shadowbringers is released. Yoshi P said it wasn't counted among the jobs coming then, too. It will only be able to do ARR content right away, but it's still a job being introduced in SB.

It's introduced in SB but it will be available for people who don't even have Heavensward. If it's available for people who only have ARR then it's an ARR job. If it was a SB job it would be locked and you'd have to have SB expansion to play it.

[hynaku]

Hasn't every gunblade in garlean empire on ffxiv always wear heavy plate armor just like a tank does. Don't see it being dps class.

[kikix12]

Those differences can exist in damage rotations, but non dps roles typically have simpler damage rotations because they can't just dps and dodge mechanics.

This is just completely false.

Healers need about 10-13 skills dedicated to the healing to be capable of pulling their weight in every content while not being overpowered. Tanks need about the same, but can supplement their damaging skills with tanking skills. That means that 15-20 skills can be whatever, including a complicated rotation.

Holding aggro costs nothing at all...but slapping "Generates Additional Enmity" on skills. As Warrior shows, the skills with additional enmity can be quite capable at dealing damage (Overpower, Steel Cyclone etc). Seeing as higher damage ALSO generates higher enmity...there really is no reason why a tank cannot have a complex rotation for that. Especially since tanks should NOT dodge everything like a headless chicken. If they do, they risk cleaving the whole party (which Tsukuyomi proves with her cleaves in the middle of the fan phase), they interfere with the DPS's damage rotation etc. Some of the lesser attacks can be "eaten" without problem. And even if they do need to dodge...how does that make it any different for them in comparison to Samurai, Ninja, Monk or Dragoon?!


Now, healers are a bit more restricted, in part. It is possible to have spells that both heal and deal damage (like Assize), but having too many of them would overpower the job. On the other hand, healers would need to frequently break combos to throw a heal or two. But...it is possible to add several ability heals with cast times or spells that don't break combos...and suddenly you can have a proper rotation and still keep on healing in-between. Problem solved. Mix that with attacks that heal small amounts on top of dealing damage and you have a healer with sustainable rotation that does its job.


In other words...no, neither healers nor tanks are limited and need to be bland and similar to each other. Healers and tanks have MORE functions than DPS. More functions means more options. Healers and tanks can be LESS bland than DPS. It is just more difficult to make since it requires balancing each of these both to other classes and to the other function at the same time.