Its time to remove job-based glamour restrictions.

[Kio]

Casting role being grouped up really ruins the traditional aesthetic of the jobs held hostage to it. Gear is only ever created for blackmages unless it is the once an expansion gift of AF armor. Please just open up glamor to all. For those gungho on having your white mages look traditional there is nothing stopping you from continuing to glamor that way. It is a bit unfair that say a summoner has to dress in a garbage bag because giving us literally anything else ruins the RP for blackmages.

[Haruka_R]

I wish I (a Ninja) could wear the Republican Signifier's Fingerless Gloves (a caster dps pvp item) with my Koga/Ninja gear. It looks really cool and almost expresses my characters individuality. But, I can't.

Please remove class restrictions.

[Iscah]

A friend actually suggested an idea where, you put an item in the glamour dresser, only then does it not have class restrictions, but if you take it out again, it's back to being what it was before entry, whole point of this was ofc not me trying to say unlock all class restrictions, we are talking about not restricting it for glamour.

That's one of the things people expected the glamour dresser to do, but it doesn't.

There are essentially two parts to glamoured items appearing:
1. You apply the instruction "glamour as Item X" to your gear.
2. The program accepts or rejects that instruction depending on whether you can equip Item X.

The glamour dresser has been built to only affect step 1 by providing a much more efficient way to apply the instructions.

Once those instructions are applied, the program can't see a difference between prism or plate applications (as either way it would just be the item's ID number without any additional 'notes'), and the step 2 check carries out exactly the same.


Because they've implemented the glamour system in this way of "slotting into the original system without changing it", that makes me think that they are either unable or unwilling to tinker with the underlying mechanics and add new checks or exceptions - anything that would change the system from only looking at those pre-set information points (item to be displayed and classes able to equip it).

I don't really understand how this would artifact armors tho, but in the first place, why the eff cant we put augmented and lvl 60/70 af gear in armoire, we don't wear the gear beyond it being our entry lvl 50/60/70 gear to begin with, it just takes space otherwise.

The system only displays glamours if you can equip them.
Artifact gear can only be equipped by the job it belongs to.
Therefore artifact gear will not be displayed on any other class - but it would be if they unlocked glamours.

As for artifact gear and the Armoire... it's weird. :/

Short answer seems to be "because they approach it differently each time" and don't review how it handles the older sets, and some items fit the criteria while others don't.

It seems that armoire gear is unique gear from quests - the original Lv45 relic gear fits that criterion, but the second Lv50 set and the Lv60 gear can be (re)purchased from vendors so they're not eligible.

And the Lv70 gear... I really don't know what's up with those. They don't go in the armoire but CAN be repurchased from the Calamity Salvager like the original Lv45 gear.

As for integrating "no glamour restrictions", they managed to code in a glamour dresser, they should be able to manage such a thing.

As I said in replying to the first part of your post, they managed to code a glamour dresser that doesn't interfere with the original system. You're still applying glamour instructions to individual gear pieces, they've just invented a way to apply them more efficiently.

If they're not willing to change the existing system and how it reads the glamour instructions, then to make the dresser items unrestricted I think they would have to duplicate every item in their database, set the new duplicates to be "all classes", possibly name them differently, and have the glamour dresser refer to those instead of the actual item you put in.

Could it be done? Probably. Is it efficient for their time, file size and the work they would have to put in to associate each gear piece with its glamour 'twin'? Quite possibly not.

(And who knows, given all the other weird intricacies of the programming that they try to work around, maybe there's a "hard limit" somewhere on the amount of item IDs they can create, and duplicating everything would take up a huge chunk of an otherwise generous limit.)

I think it could be done as a rule-based change (as opposed to separate settings on every gear item). If the list of classes/jobs that can equip it is limited to one only, then that's also the only one that can glamour it. If there's more than one that can equip it, than any class can glamour it. That would separate out AF, and I'm pretty sure it's just AF, from other gear. [...]

An alternative, of course, is to give gear items two different "equippable by" lists, one for who can equip it directly, and one for who can equip it as glamour. That would take a bit of work to set up initially, since it would require a change to each existing piece of gear, but once set up, it wouldn't involve any increase in character data size or any of the other limitations that block them from so many things.

Either approach should be feasible.

Again with the apparent unwillingness (for whatever reason) to tinker with the underlying system, I don't think the second idea would work - as they'd need to add new information that the gear isn't currently programmed to carry.

But the first could be feasible if they're able to change what rules the check goes through without affecting anything else.

[Iscah]

Casting role being grouped up really ruins the traditional aesthetic of the jobs held hostage to it. Gear is only ever created for blackmages unless it is the once an expansion gift of AF armor. Please just open up glamor to all. For those gungho on having your white mages look traditional there is nothing stopping you from continuing to glamor that way. It is a bit unfair that say a summoner has to dress in a garbage bag because giving us literally anything else ruins the RP for blackmages.

Yes it would be a bit unfair to say that... except they haven't?

I don't really understand the "caster gear is only ever created for black mages" complaint - this is not just about you; it comes up a lot.

First important question: what actually is "summoner's aesthetic" and do generic caster sets fit into it? Artifact gear, other than the orignal gren coat, tends to be odd drapey things, often with short sleeves or skirts, and this post has some quotes from the second lorebook which essentially sum it up to "mage's robes but with some skin exposed".

And as for the actual gear available to us, I think there's a wider range than people remember.

Just looking through the caster gear in Stormblood:

Lv60: 'tribal' feathered skirt and crop top
Lv61: recolour of Wind Silk Coatee set with black shirt and dyeable highlights
Lv62: robe (reused Lv60 Valerian set)
Lv63: swimwear (all classes got similar)
Lv64: robe (reused Orthodox set)
Lv65: nomad's robes (all classes got similar)
Lv66: short tunic and pants - this is the healer version; caster is just recoloured
Lv67: Doman robes
Lv68: ragged sleeveless coat (pic)
Lv69: robe/dress
Lv70...
Arhat: robe
Ala Mhigan: long coat and (IIRC) rather revealing strappy pants
Skallic: robe
Indigo Ramie: open robe, knee-length skirt and sandals
Genta/Genji: samurai robes
Farlander: tunic with short cape
Lost Allagan: long coat
Rabanastre: tunic and shoulder cape
Bonewicca: sleeveless shirt and fancy cape
True Linen: robes (reused Void Ark set)
Carborundum/Diamond: robes
Ryumaku: Hingan robes
Royal Volunteer: military jacket
Ridorana: robe... apron... thingy.
Rakshasa: Hingan robes
Omicron/Omega: tight-fitting coat
Scaevan: long coat/robe
4.5: tunic


So basically, I think there's actually quite a range of options, and not just robes, even though there is definitely a tendency towards them. Personally I appreciate having lots of choices of robes and long coats - ultimately it is what those classes are "supposed" to wear, and I (and I expect a lot of people) prefer to find glamours that fit within that concept.

It's also affected by the overall style of costume design in the expansions - Heavensward tended towards "high fantasy", and then Stormblood's Japanese influence has meant there are quite a few sets where everyone gets long robes because it's based on historical costume for the (inspired) setting.

Red mage does end up at a disadvantage because "generic mage design" doesn't fit their style of costume, but there are definitely a number of things in there that fit their intended style. Plus if you go back to the earlier gear there are things like the Plague Bringer, Sky Pirate, Valkyrie's coat (if you don't mind it not being red), Holy Rainbow shirt, Arachne bolero and the Maelstrom mage's gear. And the bliauds from ARR of course, though we already got one as starter gear - perhaps ironically the pre-RDM levels have the highest percentage of RDM-style mage gear, even if it is the one design being repeated over and over.

Also, glamour items. Combining an all-classes shirt with other class-specific pieces can come up with some interesting designs.

(For red mage in particular, male characters are at an advantage for glamour pieces that fit the style. The Riviera shirt, High House justaucorps and Boulevardier shirt all work well.)

[Laphael]

As a male AuRa Healer i can either look like a crossdresser or glamour non healer gear.
There are 1 or 2 Healer robes that don´t look awful on males, but thats it.

[Renato]

Has Yoshi ever given an actual statement on why he and the team are so gungho about not removing the restrictions?

I mean, I've heard him say that it'd be too hard to tell roles apart but that was way back in the early stages of the game. This is a topic that repeatedly keeps coming up and he repeatedly keeps refusing to even really acknowledge the question even going as far asking us which glamours we want to see made for "all roles" resulting in "newer" armors being lazy recolors of HW and ARR gear...which is exactly what a large majority of SB armor is. Even most of the dungeon gear isn't original.

Wouldn't it be easier just to remove the restriction and use those resources creating recolored variants to create some original armor? That way we get armor that we haven't already seen AND it opens up greater customization for our characters.

[Arrius]

Has Yoshi ever given an actual statement on why he and the team are so gungho about not removing the restrictions?

I mean, I've heard him say that it'd be too hard to tell roles apart but that was way back in the early stages of the game. This is a topic that repeatedly keeps coming up and he repeatedly keeps refusing to even really acknowledge the question even going as far asking us which glamours we want to see made for "all roles" resulting in "newer" armors being lazy recolors of HW and ARR gear...which is exactly what a large majority of SB armor is. Even most of the dungeon gear isn't original.

Wouldn't it be easier just to remove the restriction and use those resources creating recolored variants to create some original armor? That way we get armor that we haven't already seen AND it opens up greater customization for our characters.

Developer vision and distinct job identity - A lot of art and promotional material goes with showing the jobs in their AF gear, for example. Because that's the easiest to make them stand out, rather than have them mish mash everything.

[Iscah]

As a male AuRa Healer i can either look like a crossdresser or glamour non healer gear.
There are 1 or 2 Healer robes that don´t look awful on males, but thats it.

Personal taste is going to vary, but considering that male Auri "traditional dress" - as the lorebook describes the starter gear - involves a skirt and midriff-baring top... well, canonically they're not exactly adhering to (modern Western) masculine dress in the first place.

I realise it's different if you're dressing the character in clothes you want to wear, particularly if it's your primary character, but I do have a male Raen alt and I feel like he suits all the weird glamours that I wouldn't put on my other characters. But then again I'm approaching it as 'character design' and thinking "what would he wear?" (A: things that resemble the design of the starter gear) and not "what would I wear?"...


But I do find their unusual body proportions make a lot of gear fit them oddly because of how it's scaled rather than re-modeled for different characters. Wide collars end up a lot bigger and bulkier than they do on other races. Tight-fitting collars are better and lower necklines avoid the issue.


Though I don't really understand why it's an issue to have to glamour non-healer gear if it makes your character look good? You can still build sets that look like healer sets without necessarily using healer gear. Or combine a generic body piece with healer gear in the other slots for something that's still uniquely a healer costume.

If I can show off some examples I'd made with my Elezen alt... RDM with all caster/RDM gear except shirt; AST with only relic sleeves and all-class gear; WHM entirely with Lv1 glamour gear except the crown. In all cases I think it works as looking distinctly like that class, and (other than the WHM) relies on gear that is specific to that class, without being limited to only using that class-specific gear.

Bonus: my Au Ra as SMN using the Lv50 relic pants/skirt and Pagos shirt, which is maybe not so instantly summoner-ish but it's a bit like the Lv70 relic drapey-shirt-thing (aetherial tattoos and all) though without the stab-you-in-the-face pauldron.

Bonus bonus: stealth healer (for sneaking into imperial castrums), deliberately going against a normal "healer look" while still using healer-specific gear where possible. As well as the Ironworks scope, it uses the Makai healer gloves and boots. May upgrade to healer-specific pants if I can find some that look right.


I do also wonder if there's an issue of people wanting to stick to - or simply looking from the perspective of - "modern fashion" rather than the fantasy setting gear? Because that affects the sense of what is 'male clothing' a lot. eg. I recently got the Rabanastran mage's tunic, and when I tried it on my female character, I think she looks like she's wearing male clothing. That's my instant reaction looking at it. But I'm sure other people must say "it's femininine! it's like a dress!"

I feel odd dressing my characters in modern-looking costumes. (well, other than that stealth one for a joke, but still looks odd outside of running MSQ roulette.)


As much as the glamour restrictions are annoying, I think I do enjoy the challenge of working around them. Up until there's that one thing I really really want to equip, anyway....

[DeepbloodEclipse]

As a male AuRa Healer i can either look like a crossdresser or glamour non healer gear.
There are 1 or 2 Healer robes that don´t look awful on males, but thats it.

I use the Gamblers Coatee when I play AST(get it? cause I'm gambling with your life XD), and Hakuko Dogi as scholar, which looks pretty cool, even tho I despise the far eastern aesthetic, I don't mind this one. I, just like you, feel like I'm in drag if I wear just about anything else.

[Renato]

Developer vision and distinct job identity - A lot of art and promotional material goes with showing the jobs in their AF gear, for example. Because that's the easiest to make them stand out, rather than have them mish mash everything.

I can understand the reasoning behind AF gear. Most of it actually does have some kind of lore behind it relating to the job itself so I can see why it wouldn't be accessible to all jobs. Most people agree on that...What a lot of us are asking for is everything outside of that. So restricting glamour just because of AF gear is BS.