A question for the BLU peeps

[Istaro]

And you are literally the only person saying it has to be a 'reskin' of other casters. Does it not occur to you that BLM, SMN and RDM all play differently?

They do? All caster jobs have 3 phases of management: The build phase where you begin to ramp up your damage to prepare for phase 2: the burst phase when you unleash your nukes in a small window untill durations are up and you enter Phase 3: Cooldown phase, the point where your CDs are used and your hard hitting spells will be weaker while you wait to repeat the process. Visually the jobs all seem different but mechanically they are all the same in the name of "balance" and since you literally have only two types of damage there's really nothing special about each job other than aesthetics.

[Dualgunner]

They do? All caster jobs have 3 phases of management: The build phase where you begin to ramp up your damage to prepare for phase 2: the burst phase when you unleash your nukes in a small window untill durations are up and you enter Phase 3: Cooldown phase, the point where your CDs are used and your hard hitting spells will be weaker while you wait to repeat the process. Visually the jobs all seem different but mechanically they are all the same in the name of "balance" and since you literally have only two types of damage there's really nothing special about each job other than aesthetics.

The "build" phases are all completely different. I don't think BLM even has a "build phase" and SMN has two "Burst" phases in DWT and Bahamut summon. Sounds like you just described RDM and are trying to justify that the other two casters fit that mold.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

They do? All caster jobs have 3 phases of management: The build phase where you begin to ramp up your damage to prepare for phase 2: the burst phase when you unleash your nukes in a small window untill durations are up and you enter Phase 3: Cooldown phase, the point where your CDs are used and your hard hitting spells will be weaker while you wait to repeat the process. Visually the jobs all seem different but mechanically they are all the same in the name of "balance" and since you literally have only two types of damage there's really nothing special about each job other than aesthetics.

This is the equivalent of saying all the melee DPS play exactly the same because they all do damage. Or that BRD/MCH are identical because they both have a burst ability despite both functioning widely different. Just because every job ultimately reaches the same ending, doesn't mean the journey there is identical.

[Elerus]

This is the equivalent of saying all the melee DPS play exactly the same because they all do damage. Or that BRD/MCH are identical because they both have a burst ability despite both functioning widely different. Just because every job ultimately reaches the same ending, doesn't mean the journey there is identical.

Precisely, and it's not like Blue Mage as it is right now will not have an "optimal rotation". I don't care if there's 48 skills or 480 give it a few weeks and there will be a Reddit post telling you exactly what skills to slot in Masked Carnival, when to use them, and in what order for an optimal clear. WoW did this with their reworked talent trees with each talent tier offering 3 different choices. It took all of like a week for people to sim the optimal choice for every spec - and that was factoring in multiple end-game content selections (raids, dungeons, PvP, and open world) BLU will be cakewalk by comparison.

[Izanagi_Fiaresu]

Precisely, and it's not like Blue Mage as it is right now will not have an "optimal rotation". I don't care if there's 48 skills or 480 give it a few weeks and there will be a Reddit post telling you exactly what skills to slot in Masked Carnival, when to use them, and in what order for an optimal clear. WoW did this with their reworked talent trees with each talent tier offering 3 different choices. It took all of like a week for people to sim the optimal choice for every spec - and that was factoring in multiple end-game content selections (raids, dungeons, PvP, and open world) BLU will be cakewalk by comparison.

When WoW had the broad talent trees people still used cookie cutter specs. So no way to get around the communities in games and the meta. Look at raiding in FFXIV every static comp? Has a ninja and a bard, a paladin, a sch, white mage, dragoon and warrior. Leaving that last slot for a red mage for the rez's.

So to avoid BLU being a victim of that and gimping other groups they implemented it the best way they could/

[jon041065]

When WoW had the broad talent trees people still used cookie cutter specs. So no way to get around the communities in games and the meta. Look at raiding in FFXIV every static comp? Has a ninja and a bard, a paladin, a sch, white mage, dragoon and warrior. Leaving that last slot for a red mage for the rez's.

So to avoid BLU being a victim of that and gimping other groups they implemented it the best way they could/

Every static comp? The last two statics I was in didn't have a nin, drg, or sch.

So the 5.0 jobs and all future jobs should be in a limited state because they might not be part of the meta? That is asinine. We should be pushing SE to loosen up the meta and make statics have to choose between jobs that don't offer the same thing but are still worth having. Like if you didn't have ninja as an option for your group that's okay because you have a monk or samurai and neither choice makes your static ''weaker''.

Statics are, by definition, not using matchmaking. So, whatever the meta is or wether you decide to follow it or not, you have all the time to talk about it beforehand and not end up with an unexpected setup once in the duty.
So, yes, give us more "limited" features like talent trees for every job or gear bonuses only available in premades and let the players be creative.

We have agreed on some things over the last couple of days but this notion that people in matchmaking have to be protected from x,y, and z is not one of them. If you got someone using the wrong talent or wrong gear bonus wouldn't be that different from "ice mages" and melee not doing positionals. It would still be a case of "can't be bothered" and people can deal with it or leave. And now you will probably quote that previous statement and say that it's why limited jobs are a good idea and the circle will keep on going!

[Reynhart]

We should be pushing SE to loosen up the meta and make statics have to choose between jobs that don't offer the same thing but are still worth having.

Statics are, by definition, not using matchmaking. So, whatever the meta is or wether you decide to follow it or not, you have all the time to talk about it beforehand and not end up with an unexpected setup once in the duty.
So, yes, give us more "limited" features like talent trees for every job or gear bonuses only available in premades and let the players be creative.