A question for the BLU peeps

[Tlachtga]

This is literally asking for a mage that has ANY skill then and not BLU. It's quite literally teh point I made earlier about BLU being a reskinned caster. That youre not asking for blue mage, your asking for a caster named blue mage. Thats fine if thats what you want.

Congratulations. You've figured out what I've been saying all along; to repeat my point, yes, I would be fine with a reskinned caster that is only Blue Mage in name. My main issue has always been the limited factor of the job.

You have literally zero idea if its going to be a garbage fire, DoA or anything. How do I know this? Cause youve not played it. No one has. Its your own personal outrage and bias speaking to this and in that regards, is absolutely meaningless.

Actually I do. The devs were extremely specific as to how the job is going to play out. It's inference, a conclusion drawn from evidence the they presented. Right now, for me personally, it is dead-on-arrival, because it is capped at lvl50, and therefore cannot do relevant content, which is my only real enjoyment in this game.

As for identity, identity is what people are ASKING for. People want BLUE MAGE, not just a caster. Theyre asking for a specific thing, with a specific identity. The identity here is a caster who uses monster skills learned from monsters. Thats the crux of it. What you said above in regards to "I dont care what it looks like, so long as it does numbers" is a complete antithesis to what people were asking for.

Identity is what you are asking for (and likely other supporters of the job in its current form). I'm asking for a job that can do relevant raids.

This boggles the brain a bit for me, because after all those concessions, it feels like people are just more concerned with having caster named blue mage, then they are with playing Blue Mage as a class.

That was more or less my point, yeah.

I mean you could mitigate against that by restricting skills, but that would be ridiculous in of itself.

I don't think its ridiculous, its common sense.

which then raises the issue of why bring a blue if they dont bring anything to the table that a BLM couldnt do on top of BLU just being more difficult to get your skills for.

Why bring a SAM when they don't bring anything to the table that a NIN can't do?
Why bring a BLM when they don't bring anything to the table a SMN can't do?

Cos they play differently.

In fact, what then sets BLU apart from other casters other than a more contrived way to get your skills. Again, fi thats what you want, fine. Ask for that. But it wouldnt be thematically in line with the identity of what makes a BLU a BLU.

That's been my point all along, yea.

[Fyce]

Congratulations. You've figured out what I've been saying all along; to repeat my point, yes, I would be fine with a reskinned caster that is only Blue Mage in name.

Thank you for sharing your opinion and subjective view about what you consider "relevant content". Sorry that what you want is not compatible with what a lot of people and SE wanted for Blue Mage.

I hope you can be happy for the people who will enjoy the FFXIV's BLU in the way it was implemented. Not being able to please everyone with every piece of content is the sad reality of theme park mmorpgs. The upside is: there are other things for you to enjoy.

[Valdegarde]

Take BLM, rename it's skills and you get the BLU you want so badly.

It won't do element damage or anything unique in a fight which then begs the question: Why do you want a reskinned BLM so badly?

I vote A. It's different from everything else and that gives me motivation to play it. If it was what people want, I wouldn't even unlock it as I already have a BLM.

The hell do people keep saying this for? Does any other job have the astral/umbral swapping like Black Mage? Or are you just talking about the fact that Blue Mage would eventually have to focus on a myriad of high damage spells to be a viable caster in the role system? Because if it's just "reskinned" spells, you may as well say every job is reskinning eachother's GCDs. Every bloody non-combo thing with a 2.5 second timer that has an animation and a potency is just a copy of eachother then. That would mean you're dissatisfied with the job system in general, which I believe most people who wanted to play Blue Mage as an actual job, aren't.
And if the contention is that Blue Mage couldn't have its own style of play because of its skill acquisition, leaving its ONLY viable playstyle to be spamming the highest potency spell cast it's got, that's a highly severe lack of imagination.

[TheHeavenAbyss]

I don't have a particularly strong position in regards of whether Blue Mage should be limited or not, but I strongly disagree with the idea that, if the Blue Mage wasn't all about collecting dozens of enemy skills that work exactly like they do for enemies, it would basically be the same as Black Mage. I don't think it's bad to expect some imagination from the devs.

[AxlStream]

I don't get people that want BLU to raid so hard. You know how it would end up.

A) Pigeon holed somewhere to fit composition, giving up the point of customization and flexibility BLU is known for.

B) Cookie cutter ability setup and BiS lists lime every other job, defeating the ideals of BLU entirely (even though it'll share gears with casters right now as I understand??

C) Unwanted in PFs as it'll be a job too reliant on the player being competent just like BLM and SAM.

Also if we didn't get this version of BLU, we would of gotten another version where just as much if not more people would be upset about. Atleast this one gives us something specific to work on whenever we can't handle the dumpster of PF anymore.

[Tlachtga]

I don't get people that want BLU to raid so hard.

Er, because raids are fun?

A) Pigeon holed somewhere to fit composition, giving up the point of customization and flexibility BLU is known for.

I've been over this enough I think.

B) Cookie cutter ability setup and BiS lists lime every other job, defeating the ideals of BLU entirely (even though it'll share gears with casters right now as I understand??

It shares gear with casters, so it will have a BiS list. At lvl 50 I imagine it'd be some form of mix between Dreadwyrm and Augmented Ironworks. Substats at 50 are so pathetic though, so I imagine it won't matter as long as you're i130.

As for the cookie cutter part, Idk. I reckon they'll be a spreadsheet within a week of its release that'll have all spell locations and a tier list of them. I fully expect an illusion of choice here. SE are welcome to prove me wrong.

C) Unwanted in PFs as it'll be a job too reliant on the player being competent just like BLM and SAM.

Just because you've had bad experiences in PF, it doesn't mean everyone has. Personally I've never had a problem with playing BLM or SAM in any PFs. Especially this late in the tier.

The whole idea that BLM and SAM is unwanted is literally only true in 95% of world prog groups and hc raiders, because they're gonna want the highest chance of success.

Also if we didn't get this version of BLU, we would of gotten another version where just as much if not more people would be upset about. Atleast this one gives us something specific to work on whenever we can't handle the dumpster of PF anymore.

I doubt the initial negative reaction would have been as great as it was if that was the case.

The existing 3 casters are "pigeon holed" or "dumbed down" or "not true to their classic counterparts" and people are mostly accepting of those jobs.

Would it really be a huge problem with BLU?

[Awha]

I am in a weird position when it comes to the planned implementation on one hand I am not a huge fan of the concept of a limited job, on the other hand having a system that provides a means of using broken skills akin to logograms outside of Eureka does intrigue me. Personally I think SE has found themselves in a penurious situation and I wonder if they will simply view this as content that is simply not for everyone.

Begs the question why was BLU the job idea that they choose as their hill to die on when it came to "job" identity.

All jokes aside calling it a job whatsoever was a horrible idea in my opinion they should have simply refereed to it as content, or painted it in a new light to revisit 2.X content. In a perfect world it would be nice if we got two versions of blu mage, but as players we simply do not know what goes into making a new job let alone two versions of the same job. Without knowing how much work goes into making a job personally I am unable to stand by the request to rework the current BLU before trying it, nor can I support them making two different versions since both of those seem like unreasonable requests in my eyes this late. Think this will be one of those things that will have to evolve and improve with time, and hopefully they listen to the feedback of the community and find a middle ground in the future.

[Melichoir]

Congratulations. You've figured out what I've been saying all along; to repeat my point, yes, I would be fine with a reskinned caster that is only Blue Mage in name. My main issue has always been the limited factor of the job.

I could pretty much stop reading or caring what you have to say after this point. What youre asking for is another caster thats named Blue mage. Thats not what the general pop was asking for. So in regards to this thread, it becomes extremely irrelevant what your opinion on BLU is after this because you really dont care about it being a blue mage. All you care about is having a new caster. We're talking two different things, and youre more focused on just having another caster where I am discussing why the concept of BLU is difficult to implement in a party environment in FFXIV.

Actually I do. The devs were extremely specific as to how the job is going to play out. It's inference, a conclusion drawn from evidence the they presented. Right now, for me personally, it is dead-on-arrival, because it is capped at lvl50, and therefore cannot do relevant content, which is my only real enjoyment in this game.

No, you dont. First, inference isnt fact. Its inference, and thats based on what we know. All we know are the cliff notes of the class at the moment. The Basic-B stuff about how the limited system works and whats in store broadly for BLU. Thats it. So the inference is based on limited data. Second, see that part I bolded? Thats you stating your opinion. It's your opinion that itll be DoA for YOU, but not that the concept in of itself is a DoA dumpster fire. You dont want to play it? Fine. Dont play it. But again, stop talking as if your opinion is the definitive judgement on the value of something that isnt even in the game yet and no ones yet played.

Identity is what you are asking for (and likely other supporters of the job in its current form). I'm asking for a job that can do relevant raids.

A lot of people were asking for the identity of BLU and they do not believe its impossible to have the BLU identity in a raid environment. I disagree with their positions and have explained why. Youre whole point, as I said, is completely moot because you dont care about the identity of BLU. Again, all you care about is having another caster. If you want another caster, start a thread saying "Hey, I want another caster in the game I can play at raids." These BLU threads, however, revolve around BLU and the identity of BLU. People who are complaining broadly arent doing so because they just want another caster (though Im sure some are). Theyre complaining about not having BLU at raid level.

And I can take a pretty solid guess that if they put in a caster who learned skills from an NPC, none of them being from monsters, and called it Blue Mage, people would almost immediately reject that. The identity of the class matters to a lot of people.

But if Im wrong, then here's how you can prove it: Start a Thread and state very CLEARLY that all you want is a new caster and that you want the devs to scrap BLU all together for the new caster. That BLU is a waste of time, and whats more important is a new raid level caster. Suggest that the new caster just be called BLU, even if it does not adhere to any of the identity of BLU.

Do that and see how much support you get. I could be completely wrong and the thread will have thousands of likes and responses in favor of it. But Im gonna bet that people will not support that idea, specifically because they want BLU - a caster who learns skills from monsters.

[Kallera]

If I cannot play Blue Mage with my friends then the power is quite moot. I'd rather i'd be able to play it with others. I'd rather be able to do new content with it, instead of never being able to catch up.


It is not at all fair to tell people the class they wanted as main will be a year or more late to participating.

[Tlachtga]

I could pretty much stop reading or caring what you have to say after this point.

Believe me, after reading some of the tripe you keep posting, this thought has crossed my mind many times

So in regards to this thread, it becomes extremely irrelevant what your opinion on BLU is after this because you really dont care about it being a blue mage.

It was a reply to the original topic of the thread before you derailed it with your mini dissertations on job identity. "Would you rather have had the job...?" I stated what I would've preferred. My opinion isn't invalid at all, just because you don't like it.

No, you dont. First, inference isnt fact. Its inference, and thats based on what we know. All we know are the cliff notes of the class at the moment.

There's a character limit so I won't post the whole quote.

I'm sorry you can't understand that basically everything I type is my opinion. They said it's capped at level 50, and its unable to use DF. That's it. I don't need to know more past that point. The job is dead to me.

You don't have to like my views. That's fine. But don't talk down to me.

A lot of people were asking for the identity of BLU and they do not believe its impossible to have the BLU identity in a raid environment...

(Again there's a character limit but)

I can still state my opinion whenever I want. It's clear you don't like it. Just don't read it dude.

For the record. I'm actually indifferent with the learning mechanic. My main issue was always the level cap. The reskinned caster part was me saying that if there was compromise in its design compared to the original BLU, I'd be fine with it.

And I can take a pretty solid guess that if they put in a caster who learned skills from an NPC, none of them being from monsters, and called it Blue Mage, people would almost immediately reject that.

Again, I've never said I hated the learning mechanic. I never said that.

But if Im wrong, then here's how you can prove it: Start a Thread and state very CLEARLY that all you want is a new caster and that you want the devs to scrap BLU all together for the new caster. That BLU is a waste of time, and whats more important is a new raid level caster.

The devs have revealed their plans for BLU already. They've made their choice. I think it's dumb. I'm allowed to state that. It won't come to pass, sure, but you can't stop me from posting what I want.

Again, I never said anything about the learning, and I never said the devs should scrap the idea. I disagreed with the idea. Stop twisting my words dude.