The Blue Mage Argument at a glance

[GrenGarm]

You can't take a blacksmith into a raid, so is it not a real job?

I know you mean well, Darkpaw, and you want to defend Square's vision of BLU. But this might be the dumbest argument I've ever read on the Internet.

[GrenGarm]

Your personal definition of a class is, access to duties and instances.

No, that's the definition of a class to everyone in every MMO ever made. That's how warped this entire BLU design is, that I even have to say that. WTH. Seriously, WTH.

[AC9Breaker]

No, that's the definition of a class to everyone in every MMO ever made. That's how warped this entire BLU design is, that I even have to say that. WTH. Seriously, WTH.

Really, all you're doing is debating the semantics of it. You might not have played Final Fantasy 11 much back when it first started. Beast Master played the game completely different from the rest of the community, once again applying your logic to it, not a class. I can't claim to have played every MMO like you just did. I can however claim that my overall satisfaction level with the design choices made by the dev team since I came back around 2.0 have for the most part been good. I am eager to see how their experiment ends up.

[GrenGarm]

Really, all you're doing is debating the semantics of it. You might not have played Final Fantasy 11 much back when it first started. Beast Master played the game completely different from the rest of the community, once again applying your logic to it, not a class. I can't claim to have played every MMO like you just did. I can however claim that my overall satisfaction level with the design choices made by the dev team since I came back around 2.0 have for the most part been good. I am eager to see how their experiment ends up.

I played 11 for several years and really you can't compare the two. 14 is a different beast. Get it?

[AC9Breaker]

I played 11 for several years and really you can't compare the two. 14 is a different beast. Get it?

The one who originally made the comparison with all MMO's was you. I'm just picking up what you're putting down.

[GrenGarm]

The one who originally made the comparison with all MMO's was you. I'm just picking up what you're putting down.

Everyone keeps saying well this worked in 11 so it should work in 14. The two games aren't remotely similar, so this is not a convincing argument.

My point stands about classes in MMOs. Once you start gating content for one class and not others, or start walling off a class from other players for their own "protection," you don't have an MMO anymore. You have a single-player game masquerading as one. Just save this garbage for the single-player FFs. There are way more of those anyway.

[Darkpaw]

I know you mean well, Darkpaw, and you want to defend Square's vision of BLU. But this might be the dumbest argument I've ever read on the Internet.

I must say i appreciate the cherry picked counter argument but my point stands are the disciple of land and hand jobs not real jobs? Do people not main them? By your definition they are nothing more than sode content. Gotta tell you if thats side content im fine with that kind of side content.

[AC9Breaker]

Everyone keeps saying well this worked in 11 so it should work in 14. The two games aren't remotely similar, so this is not a convincing argument.

My point stands about classes in MMOs. Once you start gating content for one class and not others, or start walling off a class from other players for their own "protection," you don't have an MMO anymore. You have a single-player game masquerading as one. Just save this garbage for the single-player FFs. There are way more of those anyway.

I don't get how you don't see the way you contradict yourself.
"11 and 14 are totally different"
"all MMO's are the same"
Also I'm not saying this work for X game so lets try it with 14. I'm saying is The Dev team is trying something new and interesting. Let us hold off on passing judgement until we get the final product.

Also exclusion from [current content] is not equivalent to a single player game.

[GrenGarm]

I don't get how you don't see the way you contradict yourself.
"11 and 14 are totally different"
"all MMO's are the same"
Also I'm not saying this work for X game so lets try it with 14. I'm saying is The Dev team is trying something new and interesting. Let us hold off on passing judgement until we get the final product.

Also exclusion from [current content] is not equivalent to a single player game.

I guess there's no room for nuance in this discussion. Every MMO has its own idiosyncrasies, and certain designs work better in some MMOs than others. But at the end of the day, a class is a class. Across the board, if a class is specifically locked out of a huge swath of the game's content -- not by player perception, but by the devs themselves -- then it's not a real class. I want BLU as a real class. You don't. That's fine, but stop trying to tell me that I have to try it out before I judge or that the BLU design is a good idea. I don't and it isn't. And I'm going to keep saying that until Square hears it.

[GrenGarm]

I must say i appreciate the cherry picked counter argument but my point stands are the disciple of land and hand jobs not real jobs? Do people not main them? By your definition they are nothing more than sode content. Gotta tell you if thats side content im fine with that kind of side content.

You're being willfully ignorant about how crafting works in MMOs. Crafting is pretty much always optional. Just because, in this one specific game, the devs call the crafting professions "jobs," that means that actual combat-oriented jobs don't need to participate in the combat portion of the game? How does that make any sense?