The Blue Mage Argument at a glance

[AC9Breaker]

I played 11 for several years and really you can't compare the two. 14 is a different beast. Get it?

The one who originally made the comparison with all MMO's was you. I'm just picking up what you're putting down.

[GrenGarm]

The one who originally made the comparison with all MMO's was you. I'm just picking up what you're putting down.

Everyone keeps saying well this worked in 11 so it should work in 14. The two games aren't remotely similar, so this is not a convincing argument.

My point stands about classes in MMOs. Once you start gating content for one class and not others, or start walling off a class from other players for their own "protection," you don't have an MMO anymore. You have a single-player game masquerading as one. Just save this garbage for the single-player FFs. There are way more of those anyway.

[AC9Breaker]

Everyone keeps saying well this worked in 11 so it should work in 14. The two games aren't remotely similar, so this is not a convincing argument.

My point stands about classes in MMOs. Once you start gating content for one class and not others, or start walling off a class from other players for their own "protection," you don't have an MMO anymore. You have a single-player game masquerading as one. Just save this garbage for the single-player FFs. There are way more of those anyway.

I don't get how you don't see the way you contradict yourself.
"11 and 14 are totally different"
"all MMO's are the same"
Also I'm not saying this work for X game so lets try it with 14. I'm saying is The Dev team is trying something new and interesting. Let us hold off on passing judgement until we get the final product.

Also exclusion from [current content] is not equivalent to a single player game.

[GrenGarm]

I don't get how you don't see the way you contradict yourself.
"11 and 14 are totally different"
"all MMO's are the same"
Also I'm not saying this work for X game so lets try it with 14. I'm saying is The Dev team is trying something new and interesting. Let us hold off on passing judgement until we get the final product.

Also exclusion from [current content] is not equivalent to a single player game.

I guess there's no room for nuance in this discussion. Every MMO has its own idiosyncrasies, and certain designs work better in some MMOs than others. But at the end of the day, a class is a class. Across the board, if a class is specifically locked out of a huge swath of the game's content -- not by player perception, but by the devs themselves -- then it's not a real class. I want BLU as a real class. You don't. That's fine, but stop trying to tell me that I have to try it out before I judge or that the BLU design is a good idea. I don't and it isn't. And I'm going to keep saying that until Square hears it.

[AC9Breaker]

I guess there's no room for nuance in this discussion. Every MMO has its own idiosyncrasies, and certain designs work better in some MMOs than others. But at the end of the day, a class is a class. Across the board, if a class is specifically locked out of a huge swath of the game's content -- not by player perception, but by the devs themselves -- then it's not a real class. I want BLU as a real class. You don't. That's fine, but stop trying to tell me that I have to try it out before I judge or that the BLU design is a good idea. I don't and it isn't. And I'm going to keep saying that until Square hears it.

Again, you fall back on semantics and self imposed restrictions. A class is whatever the designers make it to be. Blue Mage is a class that will play the game and experience things in a manner we have have not been accustomed to yet, however being locked out from a "huge swath" of content is still a speculative statement when you don't know what the final product will be and, once again what the definition of "current content" is.

You're right though, telling you to try it out before you judge it is a wasted effort when you're so adamant on your bias. I can understand though, often new and different things are usually met with with resistance. So I can understand why this departure from the norm is causing so much frustration for you. Regardless, your emotions are not a sound reason on making a decision or in this case, casting judgement. It's just being absurd.

[GrenGarm]

Again, you fall back on semantics and self imposed restrictions.

I am dying of laughter at the irony.

[AC9Breaker]

I am dying of laughter at the irony.

I'm glad you see the humor in the absurdity of your logic.
I'll explain for anyone who hasn't been following our exchanges.

Our Mi'Qote friend here states that a class is only class if and only if they have access to X, Y, and Z content.
Our Dev team on the other hand seems to view a class as a vehicle in which they experience the world in this game.

The first definition has clear defined limits. The second definition is a lot more abstract and provides for greater potential.
Clearly, GreenGram has seen the logic in this which is why he laughs at the irony of his position to criticize Blue Mage for its limits; when its his own limited classification of what roles and classes are in this game that spur such initial frustration in him. This is obvious since he then does not go on to explain anything else in his post.
Therefore this is the conclusion we must come to.