The Blue Mage Argument at a glance

[GrenGarm]

I concede that my wording in that comment to be rather facetious. "This class isn't what I wanted. It must suck." I think this is more appropriate when paired with the analogy I made in my previous post and captures the sentiment of those in an uproar to this class.

But it's not a class.

[MrKimper]

I concede that my wording in that comment to be rather facetious. "This class isn't what I wanted. It must suck." I think this is more appropriate when paired with the analogy I made in my previous post and captures the sentiment of those in an uproar to this class.

It is by definition not a class or a job however, what you don't seem to understand is that it's not about BLU not being different or BLU not being good. BLU is inherently gimped from the start and gated off (Not just not allowed to duty finder for) but GATED off from content that EVERY OTHER JOB CAN DO, and this is the primary issue with it, it is in every sense of the word, not a job but content.

Why are we now designating jobs as content and gating them off from the rest of the game? this is wrong, Job's are the main way that you interact with story quest, dungeons, raids, alliance raids, hunts, questing. They are the vehicle by which we are able to actually play this game, and this includes disciples of hand and land.

I do not believe that ANY job should be sacrificed ONLY to be content.

"How do you know it'll always be limited"

They've stated that BLU is NOT balanced for raids and they would NOT want it in current content as it would make them not fun. This isn't speculation, this is out of Yoshi P's mouth from the keynote.

"Why is this a problem? when they'll be raising the level cap"

Because of the before said reasons, even if they'll be raising the level cap, they SPECIFICALLY said that they would raise it leading up to 5.0 and "throughout" the 5.0 patches, they never stated that it would be raised to level cap, not even once.

This isn't about it just not being what we wanted, this is about it just not being a job, at all or even NEW content, it has been described and even compared to atma farming. They've advertised that a glut of the enjoyment from the job is how long it will take to learn skills AND the carnival.

At least Eureka was new content, at least logos actions and the magi board were attempts to try something new and different. BLU is just eureka outside of Eureka with no benefits to the rest of the game it is literally gated away from everything else and from what we know in no way benefits or encourages anyone that plays current content(At least 5 or 6 months old).

[MrKimper]

Your personal feelings should not and do not hold decision making power over this dev team, none of ours do. Because they don't make this game with our opinions. They make this game as they see fit and try to give us what we ask for along the way. Which I've already detailed in some forum thread or another maybe even this one. They are actually doing a lot of what we asked for in BLU it's just that people are so in an uproar over "HOWD THEY DO THIS TO BLU MAGE?! RE RE RE!!" to actually see the potential for addressing a number of our bigger concerns with a singular system and the expense of on job. If this was any other job, or even an original job in this system and not blue mage half of you would not even be this upset. You have no idea how much resources they put into this or what their plans are for it so throwing up or even hinting at "it's a waste of resources." isn't even an argument either not yet at least because you haven't even touched the system yet to be able to provide actual feedback. Just emotional backlash.

You're joking right? so you're saying that 1.0 should have just, continued as it was? Diadem should not have been fixed and was perfect, our opinions as players don't matter and we should just shut up and pay out monthly sub? seriously? that's what you honestly think?

People wanted a fully implemented BLU that was true to or at least held the same spirit as BLU. that we could play in all content equally the same as other jobs.

What we got

-Gated out of 80% of content

-Level capped to obsolete dungeons and raids

-RNG based skill learning (Which is NOTHING like skill learning in other games)

-An instance just for BLU that is a solo experience only

THESE are what I am providing feedback to, this information that we have been given which is meant to be "Staying true to Blue mage". A lot of the reasons for these weren't even that they took feedback and wanted to give us a unique experience, it simply came down to "We couldn't balance it, so we did this"

Yes, you're absolutely right if this wasn't blue mage, if this wasn't a job people wanted to play, wanted to main, wanted to use as an actual job to go through story quest and to sit down and learn. Yes no one would be upset, nobody but they used a well loved and long asked for job and butchered it to fit the content quota until shadow bringers drops.

[Seraphor]

-Gated out of 80% of content

Actually, I've done the math, and we're only actually gated out of 17.3% of content.
Source: same as yours, my ass.

The level cap is raising, and there's no reason to believe we won't be able to run all content at some point, with the only exceptions being current and savage raids, and DF, which in itself isn't content, just a match-making system.

[Maero]

No one has a foot in this race or some other analogy until the job is actually released. People can comment all they want on how they would have wanted it implemented, in the end it is up to SE and NONE OF US know how it will actually play out yet.
Some of you are flaming each other for no real reasons, lol
Will it eventually be able to run content on par with the other jobs? Well maybe not but perhaps it will, just because they stated limited job i am sure they will cave in if enough complaints exist, just do not expect it anytime soon, perhaps 6.0 or later?
Unless someone works directly for SE none know anything, myself included it is pure speculation and alot of clueless people...

[AC9Breaker]

It is by definition not a class or a job however, what you don't seem to understand is that it's not about BLU not being different or BLU not being good.

Why are we now designating jobs as content and gating them off from the rest of the game?

I'm sorry. I was not aware that classes where defined by Webster's dictionary. At the same time I am unable to see the logical progression of thought in your post. You claim that classes aren't content, but what about all the backstory, lore, and everything else that comes with classes? Weapon designs, armor designs, is that not content? I'm sure a majority of people here would agree that DRK's job questline has some of the beast written stuff.
Yes, the classes we choose are the vehicle we use to interact with the environment. But I would think you would agree that the type of vehicle you have matters. Why? It is because of the content associated with that class. All of that content ultimately forms the identity of this class. The identity of blue mage is meant to be even more unique to all the other classes we've played before.
Is a collection of content not content? Does (1 + 2) == (9 / 3)?

They've stated that BLU is NOT balanced for raids and they would NOT want it in current content as it would make them not fun. This isn't speculation, this is out of Yoshi P's mouth from the keynote.

"Why is this a problem? when they'll be raising the level cap"

Because of the before said reasons, even if they'll be raising the level cap, they SPECIFICALLY said that they would raise it leading up to 5.0 and "throughout" the 5.0 patches, they never stated that it would be raised to level cap, not even once.

Another jump to conclusions and a bit of miscommunication as well here, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because I think "current content" is the key term. As of this time being, with our current relevant patch being 4.45 I would like to use Trials as an example for this following point. Do you consider Susano or Lakshmi current content? If not, where do we draw the line on current content? Tsukuyomi? Why not Include Suzaku? I think the Suzaku one is obvious because its the trial fight for the 4.4 patch cycle. Its also segregated from the other trials by being in the raid finder tab instead of duty finder. If you ask me, locking blue mage out from doing anything in the raid finder tab which is generally current content is an easy way to define what current content is. But of course what might seem obvious to us maybe isn't so obvious to them. Also, my point here is merely speculation. How the dev team decides to approach this definition of current content I think is something they should carefully consider.

[AC9Breaker]

You're joking right? so you're saying that 1.0 should have just, continued as it was? Diadem should not have been fixed and was perfect, our opinions as players don't matter and we should just shut up and pay out monthly sub? seriously? that's what you honestly think?

People wanted a fully implemented BLU that was true to or at least held the same spirit as BLU.

I think there should be a clear distinction here between vocal minority and general consensus. 1.0 Was bad. This is a general consensus. The blue mage we are being given for FFXIV is terrible. This is an opinion from the vocal minority in this community who have yet to gain first hand experience with it. Of course it is a calculated risk because those minorities still matter. Because those minorities are more then likely the same people who helped keep 1.0 afloat and kept their subscriptions. We just have to hope that the Dev team is good at math, haha.

Also, this may be too anecdotal but as someone who's worked a lot of customer service I've come to the belief that 9 times out of 10 the customer doesn't even know what they want and you can usually make the decision for them. More then likely they will be happy with the decision you've helped them reach.

[GrenGarm]

Where do we draw the line on current content?

This is completely irrelevant. People who are upset about BLU don't care where that line is drawn. They want to access ALL content like EVERY OTHER JOB. It's very simple. Give us a stripped-down "unfaithful" version of BLU. We don't care. We just want to raid and level and use the DF like every other job.

And if BLU is so amazing that it can't EVER be that in FF14 for some asinine reason, then DON'T PUT IT IN AN MMO. Put it in FF17.

[Darkpaw]

This is completely irrelevant. People who are upset about BLU don't care where that line is drawn. They want to access ALL content like EVERY OTHER JOB. It's very simple. Give us a stripped-down "unfaithful" version of BLU. We don't care. We just want to raid and level and use the DF like every other job.

And if BLU is so amazing that it can't EVER be that in FF14 for some asinine reason, then DON'T PUT IT IN AN MMO. Put it in FF17.

Actually it is an important distinction. No job has access to all content. Not one. You can't take a blacksmith into a raid, so is it not a real job? None of the disciple of hand or land jobs can fit into the meta. None of them are viable to clear content with? So are they just side content too? What about the people who main crafters and gatherers? Who garner the most enjoyment out of this game when they are crafting to help out other people or making gil off the marketboard? Who are you to judge these jobs as not real jobs? If people play it and decide to main it because their main source of enjoyment of the game comes from these kinds of activities does that not mean that those are the jobs and content that matters most to them and mean to them they are real jobs? Why is your definition the only acceptable definition of a "real job"? Like it or not BLU is just as much a real job as any other job in this game. It's just as much a real job as the disciples of hand or land are real jobs. It's a real job because there are people that will gravitate to that experience and that will play blue mage as much as they possibly can because they enjoy this experience, and that's who it's built for. Not you apparently. Yea, it sucks but it is what it is, and before this whole give us a stripped down version thing really takes off let me present a question...

So did summoner get a more faithful version of what it's supposed to be? No, Smn became a DoT mage and the community shredded them apart for it because it wasn't a traditional SMN. So if SMNs can't even get their Egi-glamour system as promised, or can't get a more faithful version of what it truly is. I think it's asinine for people to demand a new version of BLU before you even try the first. You can tell me all you like that you don't need to play it you already know how this is going to go. That's fine. You still haven't played it so you have no experience so you have no first hand knowledge of where it's going to go to provide logical and useful feedback, but you all will reject that little kernel of truth as well so.

[AC9Breaker]

This is completely irrelevant. People who are upset about BLU don't care where that line is drawn. They want to access ALL content like EVERY OTHER JOB. It's very simple. Give us a stripped-down "unfaithful" version of BLU. We don't care. We just want to raid and level and use the DF like every other job.

And if BLU is so amazing that it can't EVER be that in FF14 for some asinine reason, then DON'T PUT IT IN AN MMO. Put it in FF17.

I have to disagree with you on this point because I think this point [current content definition] will be extremely crucial in the reception of Blue Mage. I think it's well known information that only a small population of our community do the savage raid end game content. Even smaller are the people who actually complete it. The whole endgame hardcore meta scene is already very opinionated on what jobs work best and what tactics should be used. It's why classes like DRK,MCH, and WHM get so much flak thrown on them. Even though Dark Knight was part of the first ever clear of Ultima Weapon Ultimate, it still gets looked down on and disrespected by the community. Some of these opinions I think are pretty spot on and well deserved. But that doesn't mean the classes aren't viable. Regardless, it is very rare to see a MCH in the endgame raid scene because the community will stick to whats known to be best and works best. Why would I bring a MCH when I can do overall 30% more dps as a BRD with less effort? These are the types of opinion and attitudes that keep the majority from showing interest in the endgame. That being said, it should be clear to see why the majority would be not too bothered by the fact that they can't do Savage Raid Finder content with Blue Mage.

I think Darkpaw also brought up some good points. Your personal definition of a class is, access to duties and instances. I think Darkpaw thoroughly also points out how much of an acute definition this is. Blue Mage is something new and I'm pretty sure a template for something similar. Beastmaster, perhaps? But here's food for thought, now what if you wanted to do the Masked Carnival as a Warrior, or Red Mage, or Astro or whatever? Are these classes no longer classes now because they don't have access to this instance? This is your logic applied to the other classes.