The Blue Mage Argument at a glance

[GrenGarm]

Really, all you're doing is debating the semantics of it. You might not have played Final Fantasy 11 much back when it first started. Beast Master played the game completely different from the rest of the community, once again applying your logic to it, not a class. I can't claim to have played every MMO like you just did. I can however claim that my overall satisfaction level with the design choices made by the dev team since I came back around 2.0 have for the most part been good. I am eager to see how their experiment ends up.

I played 11 for several years and really you can't compare the two. 14 is a different beast. Get it?

[AC9Breaker]

I played 11 for several years and really you can't compare the two. 14 is a different beast. Get it?

The one who originally made the comparison with all MMO's was you. I'm just picking up what you're putting down.

[GrenGarm]

The one who originally made the comparison with all MMO's was you. I'm just picking up what you're putting down.

Everyone keeps saying well this worked in 11 so it should work in 14. The two games aren't remotely similar, so this is not a convincing argument.

My point stands about classes in MMOs. Once you start gating content for one class and not others, or start walling off a class from other players for their own "protection," you don't have an MMO anymore. You have a single-player game masquerading as one. Just save this garbage for the single-player FFs. There are way more of those anyway.

[AC9Breaker]

Everyone keeps saying well this worked in 11 so it should work in 14. The two games aren't remotely similar, so this is not a convincing argument.

My point stands about classes in MMOs. Once you start gating content for one class and not others, or start walling off a class from other players for their own "protection," you don't have an MMO anymore. You have a single-player game masquerading as one. Just save this garbage for the single-player FFs. There are way more of those anyway.

I don't get how you don't see the way you contradict yourself.
"11 and 14 are totally different"
"all MMO's are the same"
Also I'm not saying this work for X game so lets try it with 14. I'm saying is The Dev team is trying something new and interesting. Let us hold off on passing judgement until we get the final product.

Also exclusion from [current content] is not equivalent to a single player game.

[GrenGarm]

I don't get how you don't see the way you contradict yourself.
"11 and 14 are totally different"
"all MMO's are the same"
Also I'm not saying this work for X game so lets try it with 14. I'm saying is The Dev team is trying something new and interesting. Let us hold off on passing judgement until we get the final product.

Also exclusion from [current content] is not equivalent to a single player game.

I guess there's no room for nuance in this discussion. Every MMO has its own idiosyncrasies, and certain designs work better in some MMOs than others. But at the end of the day, a class is a class. Across the board, if a class is specifically locked out of a huge swath of the game's content -- not by player perception, but by the devs themselves -- then it's not a real class. I want BLU as a real class. You don't. That's fine, but stop trying to tell me that I have to try it out before I judge or that the BLU design is a good idea. I don't and it isn't. And I'm going to keep saying that until Square hears it.

[AC9Breaker]

I guess there's no room for nuance in this discussion. Every MMO has its own idiosyncrasies, and certain designs work better in some MMOs than others. But at the end of the day, a class is a class. Across the board, if a class is specifically locked out of a huge swath of the game's content -- not by player perception, but by the devs themselves -- then it's not a real class. I want BLU as a real class. You don't. That's fine, but stop trying to tell me that I have to try it out before I judge or that the BLU design is a good idea. I don't and it isn't. And I'm going to keep saying that until Square hears it.

Again, you fall back on semantics and self imposed restrictions. A class is whatever the designers make it to be. Blue Mage is a class that will play the game and experience things in a manner we have have not been accustomed to yet, however being locked out from a "huge swath" of content is still a speculative statement when you don't know what the final product will be and, once again what the definition of "current content" is.

You're right though, telling you to try it out before you judge it is a wasted effort when you're so adamant on your bias. I can understand though, often new and different things are usually met with with resistance. So I can understand why this departure from the norm is causing so much frustration for you. Regardless, your emotions are not a sound reason on making a decision or in this case, casting judgement. It's just being absurd.

[GrenGarm]

Again, you fall back on semantics and self imposed restrictions.

I am dying of laughter at the irony.