The Blue Mage Argument at a glance

[AC9Breaker]

It is by definition not a class or a job however, what you don't seem to understand is that it's not about BLU not being different or BLU not being good.

Why are we now designating jobs as content and gating them off from the rest of the game?

I'm sorry. I was not aware that classes where defined by Webster's dictionary. At the same time I am unable to see the logical progression of thought in your post. You claim that classes aren't content, but what about all the backstory, lore, and everything else that comes with classes? Weapon designs, armor designs, is that not content? I'm sure a majority of people here would agree that DRK's job questline has some of the beast written stuff.
Yes, the classes we choose are the vehicle we use to interact with the environment. But I would think you would agree that the type of vehicle you have matters. Why? It is because of the content associated with that class. All of that content ultimately forms the identity of this class. The identity of blue mage is meant to be even more unique to all the other classes we've played before.
Is a collection of content not content? Does (1 + 2) == (9 / 3)?

They've stated that BLU is NOT balanced for raids and they would NOT want it in current content as it would make them not fun. This isn't speculation, this is out of Yoshi P's mouth from the keynote.

"Why is this a problem? when they'll be raising the level cap"

Because of the before said reasons, even if they'll be raising the level cap, they SPECIFICALLY said that they would raise it leading up to 5.0 and "throughout" the 5.0 patches, they never stated that it would be raised to level cap, not even once.

Another jump to conclusions and a bit of miscommunication as well here, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because I think "current content" is the key term. As of this time being, with our current relevant patch being 4.45 I would like to use Trials as an example for this following point. Do you consider Susano or Lakshmi current content? If not, where do we draw the line on current content? Tsukuyomi? Why not Include Suzaku? I think the Suzaku one is obvious because its the trial fight for the 4.4 patch cycle. Its also segregated from the other trials by being in the raid finder tab instead of duty finder. If you ask me, locking blue mage out from doing anything in the raid finder tab which is generally current content is an easy way to define what current content is. But of course what might seem obvious to us maybe isn't so obvious to them. Also, my point here is merely speculation. How the dev team decides to approach this definition of current content I think is something they should carefully consider.

[GrenGarm]

Where do we draw the line on current content?

This is completely irrelevant. People who are upset about BLU don't care where that line is drawn. They want to access ALL content like EVERY OTHER JOB. It's very simple. Give us a stripped-down "unfaithful" version of BLU. We don't care. We just want to raid and level and use the DF like every other job.

And if BLU is so amazing that it can't EVER be that in FF14 for some asinine reason, then DON'T PUT IT IN AN MMO. Put it in FF17.

[Darkpaw]

This is completely irrelevant. People who are upset about BLU don't care where that line is drawn. They want to access ALL content like EVERY OTHER JOB. It's very simple. Give us a stripped-down "unfaithful" version of BLU. We don't care. We just want to raid and level and use the DF like every other job.

And if BLU is so amazing that it can't EVER be that in FF14 for some asinine reason, then DON'T PUT IT IN AN MMO. Put it in FF17.

Actually it is an important distinction. No job has access to all content. Not one. You can't take a blacksmith into a raid, so is it not a real job? None of the disciple of hand or land jobs can fit into the meta. None of them are viable to clear content with? So are they just side content too? What about the people who main crafters and gatherers? Who garner the most enjoyment out of this game when they are crafting to help out other people or making gil off the marketboard? Who are you to judge these jobs as not real jobs? If people play it and decide to main it because their main source of enjoyment of the game comes from these kinds of activities does that not mean that those are the jobs and content that matters most to them and mean to them they are real jobs? Why is your definition the only acceptable definition of a "real job"? Like it or not BLU is just as much a real job as any other job in this game. It's just as much a real job as the disciples of hand or land are real jobs. It's a real job because there are people that will gravitate to that experience and that will play blue mage as much as they possibly can because they enjoy this experience, and that's who it's built for. Not you apparently. Yea, it sucks but it is what it is, and before this whole give us a stripped down version thing really takes off let me present a question...

So did summoner get a more faithful version of what it's supposed to be? No, Smn became a DoT mage and the community shredded them apart for it because it wasn't a traditional SMN. So if SMNs can't even get their Egi-glamour system as promised, or can't get a more faithful version of what it truly is. I think it's asinine for people to demand a new version of BLU before you even try the first. You can tell me all you like that you don't need to play it you already know how this is going to go. That's fine. You still haven't played it so you have no experience so you have no first hand knowledge of where it's going to go to provide logical and useful feedback, but you all will reject that little kernel of truth as well so.

[GrenGarm]

You can't take a blacksmith into a raid, so is it not a real job?

I know you mean well, Darkpaw, and you want to defend Square's vision of BLU. But this might be the dumbest argument I've ever read on the Internet.

[AC9Breaker]

This is completely irrelevant. People who are upset about BLU don't care where that line is drawn. They want to access ALL content like EVERY OTHER JOB. It's very simple. Give us a stripped-down "unfaithful" version of BLU. We don't care. We just want to raid and level and use the DF like every other job.

And if BLU is so amazing that it can't EVER be that in FF14 for some asinine reason, then DON'T PUT IT IN AN MMO. Put it in FF17.

I have to disagree with you on this point because I think this point [current content definition] will be extremely crucial in the reception of Blue Mage. I think it's well known information that only a small population of our community do the savage raid end game content. Even smaller are the people who actually complete it. The whole endgame hardcore meta scene is already very opinionated on what jobs work best and what tactics should be used. It's why classes like DRK,MCH, and WHM get so much flak thrown on them. Even though Dark Knight was part of the first ever clear of Ultima Weapon Ultimate, it still gets looked down on and disrespected by the community. Some of these opinions I think are pretty spot on and well deserved. But that doesn't mean the classes aren't viable. Regardless, it is very rare to see a MCH in the endgame raid scene because the community will stick to whats known to be best and works best. Why would I bring a MCH when I can do overall 30% more dps as a BRD with less effort? These are the types of opinion and attitudes that keep the majority from showing interest in the endgame. That being said, it should be clear to see why the majority would be not too bothered by the fact that they can't do Savage Raid Finder content with Blue Mage.

I think Darkpaw also brought up some good points. Your personal definition of a class is, access to duties and instances. I think Darkpaw thoroughly also points out how much of an acute definition this is. Blue Mage is something new and I'm pretty sure a template for something similar. Beastmaster, perhaps? But here's food for thought, now what if you wanted to do the Masked Carnival as a Warrior, or Red Mage, or Astro or whatever? Are these classes no longer classes now because they don't have access to this instance? This is your logic applied to the other classes.

[GrenGarm]

Your personal definition of a class is, access to duties and instances.

No, that's the definition of a class to everyone in every MMO ever made. That's how warped this entire BLU design is, that I even have to say that. WTH. Seriously, WTH.

[AC9Breaker]

No, that's the definition of a class to everyone in every MMO ever made. That's how warped this entire BLU design is, that I even have to say that. WTH. Seriously, WTH.

Really, all you're doing is debating the semantics of it. You might not have played Final Fantasy 11 much back when it first started. Beast Master played the game completely different from the rest of the community, once again applying your logic to it, not a class. I can't claim to have played every MMO like you just did. I can however claim that my overall satisfaction level with the design choices made by the dev team since I came back around 2.0 have for the most part been good. I am eager to see how their experiment ends up.

[GrenGarm]

Really, all you're doing is debating the semantics of it. You might not have played Final Fantasy 11 much back when it first started. Beast Master played the game completely different from the rest of the community, once again applying your logic to it, not a class. I can't claim to have played every MMO like you just did. I can however claim that my overall satisfaction level with the design choices made by the dev team since I came back around 2.0 have for the most part been good. I am eager to see how their experiment ends up.

I played 11 for several years and really you can't compare the two. 14 is a different beast. Get it?

[AC9Breaker]

I played 11 for several years and really you can't compare the two. 14 is a different beast. Get it?

The one who originally made the comparison with all MMO's was you. I'm just picking up what you're putting down.