Hoarding Houses - Sometimes a Depressing Sight (a rant)

[Penthea]

So now that we know that FC houses have a higher value on the house trading market, suffer no restriction other than how many characters you have on a specific server and that the requirements to obtain one are much more lower than the personal houses, why would anyone keep extra personal houses other than for bragging rights? As mentioned above, grandfathered characters cannot purchase more personal houses than what they already have, they can only lose them.

How does this mean grandfathered plots are dropping, and I quote you, "every week"? Literally nothing you have said here states how they drop every week. This is just you saying "well they can't sell the personal houses, so why would they keep them?". Just like how you don't know how many grandfathered plots actually do drop in any given space of time, you also do not know the personal reasons why grandfathered players hang on to their plots. At best you can guess.

Whether it's because they sold it to another player/FC or through auto-demolition, the amount of grandfathered personal plots logically goes down every week due to players leaving the game and the lack of incentive to keep extra personal houses.

I see so what you're actually saying is "grandfathered plots become free sometimes". Absolutely nothing here suggests that it would have to be every week. Literally zero.

And what is this "lack of incentive to keep extra personal houses"? I can't even begin to count how many times in this thread I have been told about people who lovingly decorated their 3/7/15/etc houses. Have you suddenly decided that this isn't an incentive just to suit your argument? Have you now decided that pair on Mateus are actually real estate agents instead of people who actually enjoy owning many houses? Well at least you admitted that bragging rights is a possible incentive.

[Giruvegan]

Since we've gotten to the personal insults phase of the internet "discussion", ill keep this brief. I disagree. And allow me to apologize for misinterpreting the reason you made your post. In a thread where people were discussing house hoarding, housing shortages, and potential solutions i incorrectly thought that yours was more then just a post complaining about the current system, and was instead one about solutions.

All of my posts in this thread have been about how housing ownership should have limitations. Just because you already had ideas in your head about how the discussion would go and decided to address all those things while obviously ignoring what I was actually saying is no ones fault but your own.

I made my point clear. Trying to brush it off as ' just complaining ' when I'm actually standing up for people who aren't as privileged as whoever it is you know just goes to show that me calling hoarders selfish isn't that far from the mark. Even when defending them, showing how self-centered you have to be to do so is effortless.

[MaybeOliverB]

How does this mean grandfathered plots are dropping, and I quote you, "every week"? Literally nothing you have said here states how they drop every week. This is just you saying "well they can't sell the personal houses, so why would they keep them?". Just like how you don't know how many grandfathered plots actually do drop in any given space of time, you also do not know the personal reasons why grandfathered players hang on to their plots. At best you can guess.



I see so what you're actually saying is "grandfathered plots become free sometimes". Absolutely nothing here suggests that it would have to be every week. Literally zero.

And what is this "lack of incentive to keep extra personal houses"? I can't even begin to count how many times in this thread I have been told about people who lovingly decorated their 3/7/15/etc houses. Have you suddenly decided that this isn't an incentive just to suit your argument? Have you now decided that pair on Mateus are actually real estate agents instead of people who actually enjoy owning many houses? Well at least you admitted that bragging rights is a possible incentive.

Love how you miss the point every single time. Why do you care about grandfathered houses when you don't even need to be grandfathered in order to own more than 1 house? You've been barking at the wrong tree this entire thread. Now you're just all over the place trying to tell me that the actual amount of grandfathered houses doesn't go down.

I know housing way better than you do, just look a few posts up. I can tell you that I own more non grandfathered houses in the Mist than the amount of grandfathered houses left in that specific housing area on my server at this point. The % of players with more than 1 personal houses before 4.2 was already low and let's argue that half of those were intended for resell. Well guess what, these plots have been sold since then. Now you're left with the other half of an already small % of houses that are grandfathered. It's been nearly a year since 4.2. Players have move to different servers, stopped playing, got rid of their extra home because of X reason. Chop that number in half and you end up with a handful of people left with more than 1 personal houses.

There was 2 880 plots per server before 4.2. Let's say a very generous 10% of the houses were owned by players that already had a personal house. So 288 houses. Patch 4.2 increased the amount of plots by 50% and now sits at 4 320. Remove half of the 288 grandfathered plots that were only kept for resell purposes. 144. Remove the other half that have let go of their plots for various other reasons, 72. Barely a full ward... out of the 72 wards available. You're getting pretty close to 1% of houses being owned by grandfathered players.

More houses are auto-demolished every month on Gilgamesh compared to the total amount of grandfathered personal houses. But hey, I don't see you complain about all those people who do absolutely nothing with their house for 45 days. Do you think it's okay to have more than an entire ward in limbo all year long on a populated server?

Finally, since you seem so picky about the words I use...

I can't even begin to count how many times in this thread I have been told about people who lovingly decorated their 3/7/15/etc houses.

Show me the posts in this thread where players have come out to talk about their 3/7/15 decorated houses. They don't seem to exist

[Besame]

Reading this thread and chuckling. Don't waste your breath arguing with a true hoarder. They always have a "valid" reason in their mind and you will get frustrated dealing with them.

[Penthea]

Love how you miss the point every single time. Why do you care about grandfathered houses when you don't even need to be grandfathered in order to own more than 1 house? You've been barking at the wrong tree this entire thread. Now you're just all over the place trying to tell me that the actual amount of grandfathered houses doesn't go down.

And you miss the question, again. I have asked you how do you know that grandfathered plots drop "every week" on all servers? And all you can say is "well they can't sell them and sometimes they quit playing so they must". Absolutely nothing about your answer suggested even a vaguely descriptive timeframe.

You can say all you like about me barking up the wrong tree, but at least when I am shown that I am wrong I respectfully admit it, whereas you literally pull "facts" out of the air, and borderline laugh at me for not just assuming you're correct. There is absolutely no way you could know how many grandfathered plots are demolished every week. There is no way you could know something so specific about housing unless you worked for SE.

And because you somehow missed it again and again:

The problem with grandfathered houses is that it means there is less of a limited resource to be evenly distributed among players. You don't have to agree the removal of anything to understand the problem. You don't have to agree with me to understand basic math. Many people here who have disagreed with me are in this mindset, and would prefer a different solution than to remove anything from anyone. They didn't make up things like "grandfathered plots are being demolished every week" to argue their point.

I suspect you are so hostile at the idea that grandfathered plots could be anything resembling a problem because you don't want people to draw comparisons with you and your 27 ungrandfathered plots. So then you resort to literally making things up to draw attention away from this. I regret to inform you that I am not fooled.

More houses are auto-demolished every month on Gilgamesh

You seem to not realise that not every server is a carbon copy of Gligamesh. Just because the housing situation is in a certain way there does not make it the same elsewhere. If you knew about housing as much as you like to harp on, you would know that it can vary a lot from one server to another.

I'm going to block you now. I thank you for the updated information regarding how many fc plots can now be bought on a server, but I have little interest in engaging with someone who conjures up facts. I have better things to do than that. I am informing you to give you the opportunity to not waste your time debating with someone who has no interest in reading your future posts.

I realise that this is going to make people laugh at me, but honestly I'd rather continue the debate with literally anyone else in this thread than have to read anything more that MaybeOliverB has to say.

Reading this thread and chuckling. Don't waste your breath arguing with a true hoarder. They always have a "valid" reason in their mind and you will get frustrated dealing with them.

Pretty much.

[MaybeOliverB]

And you miss the question, again. I have asked you how do you know that grandfathered plots drop "every week" on all servers? And all you can say is "well they can't sell them and sometimes they quit playing so they must". Absolutely nothing about your answer suggested even a vaguely descriptive timeframe.

Sorry but I did answer that question, you simply refuse to read it. You didn't even try to challenge my numbers.

You can say all you like about me barking up the wrong tree, but at least when I am shown that I am wrong I respectfully admit it, whereas you literally pull "facts" out of the air, and borderline laugh at me for not just assuming you're correct. There is absolutely no way you could know how many grandfathered plots are demolished every week. There is no way you could know something so specific about housing unless you worked for SE.

No you aren't. You can't even back that statement up:

I can't even begin to count how many times in this thread I have been told about people who lovingly decorated their 3/7/15/etc houses.

Probably because these posts don't even exist to begin with. You don't need to work for Square Enix to know your neighbors or you know, maybe you really don't put in as much effort regarding housing as you would like to think .

And because you somehow missed it again and again:

The problem with grandfathered houses is that it means there is less of a limited resource to be evenly distributed among players. You don't have to agree the removal of anything to understand the problem. You don't have to agree with me to understand basic math. Many people here who have disagreed with me are in this mindset, and would prefer a different solution than to remove anything from anyone. They didn't make up things like "grandfathered plots are being demolished every week" to argue their point.

I suspect you are so hostile at the idea that grandfathered plots could be anything resembling a problem because you don't want people to draw comparisons with you and your 27 ungrandfathered plots. So then you resort to literally making things up to draw attention away from this. I regret to inform you that I am not fooled.

I have not made a single comment on solutions to the lack of plots. All I'm saying is that you are complaining about grandfathered players when non-grandfathered players can obtain more houses than grandfathered players have. Somehow, you cannot grasp that concept. I have no one to defend but myself, I just wonder why people like you are wasting their time complaining about players with 2-3 houses, when any player can acquire up to 9 houses on a specific server with the ongoing restrictions.

You seem to not realise that not every server is a carbon copy of Gligamesh. Just because the housing situation is in a certain way there does not make it the same elsewhere. If you knew about housing as much as you like to harp on, you would know that it can vary a lot from one server to another.

You are correct, Moogle was never locked down for nearly a year due to the high population. Thanks for reminding other readers that housing on congested servers is a lot more difficult to acquire than on servers like Moogle.

I'm going to block you now. I thank you for the updated information regarding how many fc plots can now be bought on a server, but I have little interest in engaging with someone who conjures up facts. I have better things to do than that. I am informing you to give you the opportunity to not waste your time debating with someone who has no interest in reading your future posts.

I realise that this is going to make people laugh at me, but honestly I'd rather continue the debate with literally anyone else in this thread than have to read anything more that MaybeOliverB has to say.

One could say that you've been the one conjuring up facts all along. You got proven wrong once, now twice. I'll be here.

[Themarvin]

This is becoming a farce in a way, standpoint still sticks with removal of grandfathering or deporting all multiple house owners to a server their own, to free up the servers they reside some more, or given the option to to transfer all for free or the likes.... or just SE stepping in revoking the grandfathering giving the players a choice with a patch that they can keep 1 house +1 FC house, wont be bad PR either really, and hey if SE can up the visible item limit for houses when inside would be nice too now when they are at it

[Themarvin]

Why do you people even care about grandfathered houses? Don't you understand that the actual amount of grandfathered houses is pretty much meaningless and it keeps going down every week? It makes no sense to complain about a small minority of players owning more than 1 personal house when you can have 8 FC houses, with a lvl 1 character as the leader and unique member, since the restriction does not apply to FCs anymore.

Based on what data do you see the amount of grandfathered houses going down? I would certainly like to see the link or source you got it from, ty.

And that minority of players, may own 5 to 20+ houses FC/Private which is a problem when servers start to fill up, and they do, that IS what is causing the problem, just because it is not such an active problem on own server, does not mean that I can't have an opinion about the issue.

Personally I would be ok with someone owning 20 houses under one condition, and that is you pay for 10 subscriptions and have 1 personal house and 1 FC house on each.

[Penthea]

Based on what data do you see the amount of grandfathered houses going down? I would certainly like to see the link or source you got it from, ty.

You won't get a source for it because there is none that they can provide. I didn't read their last post because I have them blocked now, but other times they answered this it was little more than napkin math based on their personal experience on only one server along with conveniently overlooking anything that contested their claim.

The only ones who know how many grandfathered plots are demolished every week are SE. I seriously doubt MaybeOliverB works for SE.

Personally I would be ok with someone owning 20 houses under one condition, and that is you pay for 10 subscriptions and have 1 personal house and 1 FC house on each.

I don't know if you know this, but SE have quietly lifted the purchase restrictions on fc houses, so now the current limit is one private home and eight fc houses. A few posts ago MaybeOliverB informed me of this. SE's information about this on the lodestone is out of date. I suppose they quietly lifted it because they didn't want to encourage players to start hoarding again.

So I don't know if you mean the purchase restriction should be reduced back to what it was at 4.2, or if you were unaware that it was lifted.

And that minority of players, may own 5 to 20+ houses FC/Private which is a problem when servers start to fill up, and they do, that IS what is causing the problem, just because it is not such an active problem on own server, does not mean that I can't have an opinion about the issue.

The data centre splits makes me both hopeful and concerned. It does mean that many players who leave crowded servers will finally have a chance to get a house elsewhere, but this doesn't mean each will be a success story. I expect to see posts from people saying things like "I thought I would have the chance to get a house on <server> but all the wards are full and I can't transfer for a few days while the empty plots elsewhere are being bought. I'll never get a house." and "I left my house behind to go to the same data centre as my friends and the server I moved to has no plots left". We already saw similar happen before with the first free transfers. It's one of the primary reasons why those two players on Mateus became so controversial.

The only way SE could mitigate this without changing the system is if they bring in more wards at the same time, but as far as I recall they did not mention the intention to do so before 5.0. Of course they can at 5.0 but that's several months after 4.5.

[Harmonea]

You won't get a source for it because there is none that they can provide. I didn't read their last post because I have them blocked now, but other times they answered this it was little more than napkin math based on their personal experience on only one server along with conveniently overlooking anything that contested their claim.

Grandfathered houses are houses which, once lost, may not be repurchased by their original owners since the rules no longer allow those purchases. Therefore, the number of grandfathered houses can only ever go down. While the owners of these homes are almost certainly very active and attentive toward our demo timers, one by one, we will quit, make mistakes in our login rituals, fall prey to bugs, or have RL interventions that will reclaim the land. No one can make claims as to the rate that's happening, but I'd guarantee this time next year there will be fewer grandfathered houses than there currently are. I think that's the logic being employed here, and the "napkin math" you eschew is only intended to give example numbers.

The data centre splits makes me both hopeful and concerned. It does mean that many players who leave crowded servers will finally have a chance to get a house elsewhere, but this doesn't mean each will be a success story. I expect to see posts from people saying things like "I thought I would have the chance to get a house on <server> but all the wards are full and I can't transfer for a few days while the empty plots elsewhere are being bought. I'll never get a house." and "I left my house behind to go to the same data centre as my friends and the server I moved to has no plots left". We already saw similar happen before with the first free transfers. It's one of the primary reasons why those two players on Mateus became so controversial.

I would hope any player for whom housing is so big a draw that it's their primary reason for considering a server switch would plan ahead. They should make an alt, stake out the wards, and find a couple of open plots they're interested in. They should form their FC ahead of time to push it to rank 6 with a few like-minded friends to prevent the weeks-later housing crunch that happened on Mateus; leveling some alts through the MSQ on a preferred server doesn't take long and nets a silly amount of FC leveling credit. And of course, they should be in money-making mode now if they don't already have the funds.