Hoarding Houses - Sometimes a Depressing Sight (a rant)

[Lubu_Mykono]

Just move to another server with free plots when the transfer comes out, then spend your time on your old server. Guarantee most of Balmung without housing will do it.

[Frizze]

Ill notate this to make my response easier. Bold is me.

I'm not sure why you're so invested in painting the people that do this as anything but the purest saints from the highest heaven Are the only options that someone is either the purest of saints or the vilest evil creature imaginable? Im not "painting" people who legitimately bought multiple plots as anything other then players who broke no rules. but considering what I've had to go through in my quest to obtain ONE PLOT, I couldn't care less about people with several. And im sure i wouldnt really be that invested in the sad sad story of how hard you struggled to get your plot. Anymore then you would care about the story behind how i ended up with mine. What reason is there to have plots in the double digits? Wait, do you really think all(or even most) the grandfathered accounts are sitting on 10+ houses? I would LOVE to see someone do an actual server by server count for this. The number of people im aware of across all servers with more then 10 houses i could count on one hand. How is that fair to new and future players? What about if there's an influx of people after 5.0 hits? This game is full of things that new and future players have no access to and no way of obtaining. How is it fair that a new player can never get the rewards from some of the old limited events that will never come by again? How is it fair to a future PvPer that theyll never have a shot at the rewards from the early feast seasons? I'm talking about possible server transfers if people decide to make their visits permanent. If you visited a server first and then decided to transfer there without checking if the housing situation met your standards then that problem is entirely yours.

Just because SE completely underestimated how ridiculous people would be ( as well as implementing a horrific system ) doesn't mean that those who decided to go to town should get to keep their gains. Everyone should have the same housing limits across the board. Hoarders, Scalpers, Bots, and RMT all thrived because of the actions of many. People who didnt break the rules shouldnt be punished. If the system is broke, fix it. Add ishgardian doman and ala mhigan housing wards. Fix instanced housing so that it isnt seen as a "lesser" option. Allow FCs access to the workshop subs and airships without needing a house(and i guarantee you, THIS would open up a TON more houses then removing grandfathered lots). Or come up with a better idea then all of these and do that.

Not really sure what point you're trying to make about Lamia either because as I recall VERY VIVIDLY there were serious problems with all of these things for years until some of the last expansions to Wards were added. Selfish and opportunistic types went out their way to make things harder for everyone else. They will not get an ounce of my sympathy. My point about Lamia was simply that you were complaining about housing being insufficient while playing on a server that has more housing then it currently needs. I also remember when things were worse then they are now. I handful of friends talked me into joining them in game, some going out of there way to talk up limited housing as a plus. They never mentioned that the server they were getting me to join was sold out at the time. I was so salty about it when it finally dawned on me(a few of them leaving the game just as i was catching up didnt help - im not still friends with all of these people). Then they expanded housing(several times) and i eventually got my house. I guess one of the differences between you and me is that i stopped being upset about it.

I couldn't care less what you do to your sub. It's your money.

And im not implying that you should care about my sub, i was merely pointing out that it isnt only people with multiple lots who would see this as a violation of trust and choose to quit. The problem with taking away something that was fairly earned is that once youve started where do you stop? You start with grandfathered in multiple plot owners. This wont open up enough plots, so what next? Individuals with personal lots of large or medium size? FCs with less then 50 members? FCs with less then 10? FCs with only one or two members? Individuals with lots in the wards rather then instanced apartments? People who didnt do a "good enough" job decorating their house? I was against the idea of the demolition timer at first, because it was something they had promised not to do. I convinced myself that it was ok because they were only taking away things that werent being used(most of the houses demo'd belonged to former players afterall). Im still not sure even THAT was the right move. If someone paid 300+ million for a house(back when that was harder to earn), spent millions more and hundreds of hours decorating it, then took a break from the game around 3.0(demolition was added in 3.1) and decided to come back in 5.0 only to find their home long gone... i can only imagine how devastated and betrayed they would feel.

No. Fix the system. They have the ability. Saying you dont think they can just gets them off the hook for having to do it. If the game is going to grow then the problem will only get worse. The longer it gets put off, the harder itll be to do but eventually it will need to be done. Theres been some rumors floating around that 5.0 will see them make some revisions to the game and/or the MSQ to make getting into the later sections a little easier. Seems like a perfect time to go into the housing system and make the fixes necessary for the next stage in this games life.

[Besame]

I have a medium personal house and hubby and I have a 2-person small house FC with alts. Only change I'd like to see is not having to pay 2 other people to stand in a group in the workshop to deal with ships and subs. We are very capable of gathering what is needed for any upgrades and launch cost and frankly, we don't want any more people in the FC unless they are casual and like-minded, too many headaches.

[Inoch]

Just move to another server with free plots when the transfer comes out, then spend your time on your old server. Guarantee most of Balmung without housing will do it.

Any smart person on these smaller server are buying the free plots by now.

[Giruvegan]

Are the only options that someone is either the purest of saints or the vilest evil creature imaginable? Im not "painting" people who legitimately bought multiple plots as anything other then players who broke no rules.

Maybe if you had actually just said this instead of quoting poetry I would've taken your point more seriously. Today I learned that if you hoard plots and there is a danger of them being taken away then you are on par with people that have survived Nazi Germany but, I'm the one whose ' upset '.

Wait, do you really think all(or even most) the grandfathered accounts are sitting on 10+ houses? The number of people im aware of across all servers with more then 10 houses i could count on one hand.

I don't care how many people you know of that have 10+ plots. There are others outside of whoever you know that own that many anyway. My point is that it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. You seem to be under the assumption that I'm trying to fix the housing problems everywhere when my point has been: ' the number of plots each person has should be equal '. Plots being grandfathered shouldn't have happened based on the current system.

How is it fair that a new player can never get the rewards from some of the old limited events that will never come by again? How is it fair to a future PvPer that theyll never have a shot at the rewards from the early feast seasons?

None of these things have the same demand as housing does and you know it. It's not like those rewards were a limited resource that only a few could earn only to have people stockpile them and make earning them impossible for anyone else. If you're going to make false equivalences then don't bother replying to me again.

If you visited a server first and then decided to transfer there without checking if the housing situation met your standards then that problem is entirely yours.

If you bought multiple plots when you knew that they were limited and other people were locked out of content all the time so you could experience it multiple times then your loss is entirely yours.

[Giruvegan]

People who didnt break the rules shouldnt be punished. If the system is broke, fix it...

It's funny because I never said that removing grandfathering would meet the demand. This is a claim you've made up by yourself. If they actually fix the current issues, on more populated servers especially, then everyone wins.

My point about Lamia was simply that you were complaining about housing being insufficient while playing on a server that has more housing then it currently needs. I guess one of the differences between you and me is that i stopped being upset about it.

It's almost as if you can be against something even if it's not affecting you personally. You said you didn't care about my housing story and then preceded to tell me about yours? Okay.

Saying you dont think they can just gets them off the hook for having to do it. If the game is going to grow then the problem will only get worse. The longer it gets put off, the harder itll be to do but eventually it will need to be done.

I never said this. You seem really fond of putting words in my mouth to make up your own rebuttals. Unless there is a new system implemented that can satisfy the needs of everyone then grandfathering and house hoarding shouldn't be allowed.

I'll say it again since you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension: The number of housing plots owned should be equal for everyone.

[Themarvin]

You've played a game for 5 years, bought multiple houses at these prices, and now because there are more people playing than SE thought would want to play you should have to give up something you worked really hard for? How is it fair to take something away from a player that they have had for years because more people started playing the game? Especially when there are servers like Zalera, Goblin, Brynhildr, & Coeurl that have tons of empty plots available? While this might not change your mind, I hope that it might give you something to think about, and maybe give you a bit of empathy for some of the people on the other side. And the User Agreement we all agreed to when starting the game has not been changed at all since August 24, 2013. I would hazard to guess that while you're correct that SE can change it at any point, they aren't going to any time soon (even though it really should have been updated a few times since then).



I love our ward system. Many others do not. I would like to see the option for those that do want it, and maybe as a way for all characters to be able to have their own house and not just an apartment (or maybe just an apartment if they really do expand them like they said they were looking into).
quick edit - As I understand it our current housing system is not truly instanced with all of the wards from all of the worlds constantly taking up space like the other worlds zones on the servers. While the insides of the houses are instanced, the wards themselves are not.

To answer that, yes they should do so, other games do and have done similar things for the greater good, also it is just a game so technically can not really be hurt other than actually having one house you can spend all the time in as doubtfully would be able to fully enjoy 20 of them for any purpose or use whenever it get to it and yes I know, I got more than 11000 hours in FF, also why should someone change servers if someone own 20 hours being grandfathered, why should people leave their friends, would it not be better for these Grandfathered people for an instance themself move to a server that is barely populated so they can endure their thing for house hording better instead of pestering the actual more populated places, it is a clear minority that has more then the current allowed housing as it is, just stick with the times as it is.

The wards themself is an instance, we got 18 instances with 18 sub divisions in them, that allow multiple people in it, alike Eureka (insertwhateevrareahere)

I would go with SE enforcing this with a but and solution as well, multi owners getting moved to a server entirely for that as an option to keep their stuff as be giving the choice to move to another server or give up all property on current one as a better solution, instead of legit players having to feel punished by being forced to move to an empty server just to get a hosue or have a better chance at getting one as it is

[AriesMouse]

would it not be better for these Grandfathered people for an instance themself move to a server that is barely populated so they can endure their thing for house hording better instead of pestering the actual more populated places.

That is literally what some of them have done, and then years later, years of the servers being dead, houses being open and at bottom devalue price, SE suddenly make the servers preferred and encouraged people to move to them. That is exactly what happened to Mateus. People got their houses, and there were plenty of houses still around to be had, and it was perfectly fine for YEARS. Then the flood of transfers, and then the endless flood of salt.

This is still an SE made problem, and the only solution is to make housing an infinite resource rather than a finite one. Until people focus on pushing for that, SE will continue to do nothing while we all fight about everything else, thoroughly distracted.


I'm also going to state again, louder for the people in the back:

At the end of the day, there is a slippery slope here, when it comes to saying something needs to be removed from players. Where do you draw the line? When does "this person has too much, take some away" stop? Does it just stop with people with more than 1 personal house? Or would it just move on to "no one should have a personal mansion", or "an FC needs this house more, take away the personal housing". I have seen those sorts of statements before. Once you open the door to things being removed, you can't close it. Also take for example people that have more than one house because they have more than one service account. Should they lose their houses to? They are 100% within the rules, but people will argue that they should still drop to just one. Rather than fighting to take away other people's toys, why not fight harder for SE to provide enough for all of us to play with evenly?

[Penthea]

That is literally what some of them have done, and then years later, years of the servers being dead, houses being open and at bottom devalue price, SE suddenly make the servers preferred and encouraged people to move to them. That is exactly what happened to Mateus. People got their houses, and there were plenty of houses still around to be had, and it was perfectly fine for YEARS. Then the flood of transfers, and then the endless flood of salt.

This is still an SE made problem, and the only solution is to make housing an infinite resource rather than a finite one. Until people focus on pushing for that, SE will continue to do nothing while we all fight about everything else, thoroughly distracted.

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here, it almost appears as if you are saying it's bad thing that SE encouraged people to play on less populated servers because it further highlighted house hoarding issues, which in turn made other house hoarders a target for the community because their actions deprived players of content, and this was bad because it was fine for years until SE shook it up.

If this is what you're saying...uh...wow? There is a very long list of reasons why it's better for both SE and the players if the population of the servers is more evenly distributed, and most of them have little to do with housing. The peace and quiet hoarders had on dead servers was definitely not something on SE's list of priorities, and it should not be. The health and stability of the servers matters far more than a minority of players hoarding houses.

As for "fine". Um...no hoarding houses is never fine whether the server is dead or very much active. Just because the problem was hidden on dead servers doesn't automatically mean it was fine. Mateus was dead. If something becomes a problem when a server's tiny population begins to grow then it means that thing was a problem all along. The servers are intended to be populated. They are never intended to be dead.

I am not denying that the whole housing mess is a problem that began with SE, because it most certainly did. But let's not pretend that there aren't players who are making these problems worse with their antics. House hoarders know housing is in a limited quantity. They know full well that owning several houses means they are possibly denying content to several people and/or several fcs. They know they took advantage of a badly made system. SE messed up with housing, but house hoarders and house flippers made it worse with their greed.

At the end of the day, there is a slippery slope here, when it comes to saying something needs to be removed from players. Where do you draw the line? When does "this person has too much, take some away" stop? Does it just stop with people with more than 1 personal house?

Pretty simple. It stops when all players have the exact same limitations on how many houses they can own.

And sorry but this slippery slope argument is weak when avoiding the slope means keeping a minority happy while a far larger amount of people are literally being deprived of content. I really can't fathom how anyone thinks facilitating the greed of a minority is more important than the happiness of a larger amount of players.

Also seriously, why do some of you talk like SE should never do an unspeakable act such as remove things from players because it would only mean bad things. Have you truly forgotten demolition wasn't always in the game? And that its introduction was mostly very well received because it more evenly distributed houses among players? Or do we conveniently forget about this because it draws too many parallels with house hoarders that make them look bad?

[Frizze]

I'll say it again since you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension: The number of housing plots owned should be equal for everyone.

Since we've gotten to the personal insults phase of the internet "discussion", ill keep this brief. I disagree. And allow me to apologize for misinterpreting the reason you made your post. In a thread where people were discussing house hoarding, housing shortages, and potential solutions i incorrectly thought that yours was more then just a post complaining about the current system, and was instead one about solutions. Im sorry for that.