Hoarding Houses - Sometimes a Depressing Sight (a rant)

[Themarvin]

Second, the slippery slope argument isn't weak here, when again, I have seen people argue for many of the things I've listed. Do you think they will suddenly stop if the rules are changed an the grandfathered people get their houses removed? Not likely. The houses freed up will vanish in days, and then the problem will continue. Not enough houses. It won't change anything other than giving SE an sizable amount of PR damage.

You seem to think it is a minority group that is in favor of grandfathered people keeping their houses, but I think you're mistaken on that. This change would not be the same as the demolition timer, since that was mostly effecting players that weren't playing to free up a resource not being used. You're saying that people should have things taken away they are actively using, and spending tons of gil, and possibly real life money on from mog station. Apples and Oranges at this point. Also keep in mind that in order to have more than one house, you're paying a higher sub fee for that alt. In a sense, they are paying for that extra house.

At the end of the day, we need to rally together to push for better housing, and not fight so hard to screw each other over out of saltiness or spite. This isn't an issue of the "haves and have nots", it's an issue of SE sitting on their hands knowing there is a problem, but the lot of us not doing anything to make them actually fix it, because we're all too busy infighting.

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It is worse PR damage that some people get special treatment with grandfathering, and the 13million others do not, it is much more of a disaster seen from my point of view, hey I am not missing a house myself either, I just think... if you get to keep more than one house I would like to as well without having to buy an additional subscription and I want it working with the current system because I easely can afford or buy out people with large houses or pay for their relocation to elsewhere...

My point is... either it goes for ALL or no one, including grandfathered people, or move all grandfathered people to a secluded server just for them with no one else to join or something.

[MaybeOliverB]

It is worse PR damage that some people get special treatment with grandfathering, and the 13million others do not, it is much more of a disaster seen from my point of view, hey I am not missing a house myself either, I just think... if you get to keep more than one house I would like to as well without having to buy an additional subscription and I want it working with the current system because I easely can afford or buy out people with large houses or pay for their relocation to elsewhere...

My point is... either it goes for ALL or no one, including grandfathered people, or move all grandfathered people to a secluded server just for them with no one else to join or something.

Why do you people even care about grandfathered houses? Don't you understand that the actual amount of grandfathered houses is pretty much meaningless and it keeps going down every week? It makes no sense to complain about a small minority of players owning more than 1 personal house when you can have 8 FC houses, with a lvl 1 character as the leader and unique member, since the restriction does not apply to FCs anymore.

[Penthea]

Why do you people even care about grandfathered houses?

I am impressed that you have managed to avoid to multiple instances in which this has been explained.

Don't you understand that the actual amount of grandfathered houses is pretty much meaningless and it keeps going down every week?

Oh yes I'm sure a ward full of grandfathered plots means nothing to people who have access to none. Fcs stuck in a cottage that need a bigger house don't care about medium and large plots that are mostly abandoned by grandfathered players.

/s in case that wasn't obvious

Also do you have a source for "it keeps going down every week"? Are you somehow privy to information about activity of every single house in the game? Do you have access to SE's internal statistics for housing?

It makes no sense to complain about a small minority of players owning more than 1 personal house when you can have 8 FC houses, with a lvl 1 character as the leader and unique member, since the restriction does not apply to FCs anymore.

From what I understand being able to purchase eight fc houses on the same server after 4.2 requires using a loophole. If you are the fc master of a house with a fc you cannot buy another fc plot...unless you temporarily give fc leadership to a character on another account, buy the second fc house, and get fc master back again with the first character and...voila you own more than one fc house.

If I'm wrong then please tell me how this is done, because I distinctly remember reading that you cannot buy another personal or fc house if you already own one of each. As far as I recall you can't even buy a fc house if you're even in an fc with a house on any character in that server.

And I remember this because I was unsure about the wording of SE's statement about the 4.2 changes, and I asked in these forums if having my alts in my fc would somehow be affected.

If this is how it's done then sorry no, that's not an intentional feature SE gave us. That's a loophole. If it was intentional then SE wouldn't have bothered to prevent fc masters from being able to buy more fc houses on the same server.

EDIT: I found official information regarding how many plots players can own after 4.2. One section states "Players may only own one private and one free company estate per World on any given service account." You can read the whole thing here.

So yea, it is a loophole as SE have explicitly stated that they do not intend for players to be able to purchase more than one fc house on the same server from 4.2 onwards.

[MaybeOliverB]

I am impressed that you have managed to avoid to multiple instances in which this has been explained.



Oh yes I'm sure a ward full of grandfathered plots means nothing to people who have access to none. Fcs stuck in a cottage that need a bigger house don't care about medium and large plots that are mostly abandoned by grandfathered players.

/s in case that wasn't obvious

Also do you have a source for "it keeps going down every week"? Are you somehow privy to information about activity of every single house in the game? Do you have access to SE's internal statistics for housing?



From what I understand being able to purchase eight fc houses on the same server after 4.2 requires using a loophole. If you are the fc master of a house with a fc you cannot buy another fc plot...unless you temporarily give fc leadership to a character on another account, buy the second fc house, and get fc master back again with the first character and...voila you own more than one fc house.

If I'm wrong then please tell me how this is done, because I distinctly remember reading that you cannot buy another personal or fc house if you already own one of each. As far as I recall you can't even buy a fc house if you're even in an fc with a house on any character in that server.

And I remember this because I was unsure about the wording of SE's statement about the 4.2 changes, and I asked in these forums if having my alts in my fc would somehow be affected.

If this is how it's done then sorry no, that's not an intentional feature SE gave us. That's a loophole. If it was intentional then SE wouldn't have bothered to prevent fc masters from being able to buy more fc houses on the same server.

I'm impressed that you post in here without knowledge on the subject. If you would understand that people do stop playing this game and people do trade houses, you would logically figure out that the amount of grandfathered plots keeps dropping as it only affect personal houses. FC houses were grandfathered for two weeks and have since been the de facto option for players that are into reselling multiple plots. There are no loop holes involved, FC houses require 4 players, a rank 6 FC and x amount of gil.

My question still stands, why do you people care about a small amount of grandfathered houses when you can still have 8 FC houses on the same server with a single account without any circumvention of the ingame rules?

[Penthea]

I'm impressed that you post in here without knowledge on the subject. If you would understand that people do stop playing this game and people do trade houses, you would logically figure out that the amount of grandfathered plots keeps dropping as it only affect personal houses.

Only affects personal houses? I have personally seen grandfathered plots that are fc houses, care to explain this?

As for people who stop playing the game...wow, what weak reasoning "hey it's okay for me to own 27 houses because some house hoarders stop playing the game". That's akin to saying "hey it's okay for me to own loads of toys even if it means some children will have none because children grow up and then are adults".

FC houses were grandfathered for two weeks and have since been the de facto option for players that are into reselling multiple plots. There are no loop holes involved, FC houses require 4 players, a rank 6 FC and x amount of gil.

If there are no loopholes then please explain this:

Is this information out of date? Then if so please provide official information from SE stating this. If you do then I will bow down on this particular argument on who can buy what and how.

[MaybeOliverB]

As for people who stop playing the game...wow, what weak reasoning "hey it's okay for me to own 27 houses because some house hoarders stop playing the game". That's akin to saying "hey it's okay for me to own loads of toys even if it means some children will have none because children grow up and then are adults".

What are you even going on about, you completely missed what I was saying and ended up extrapolating. Once again, you're hard pressed to put words into other people's mouth.

Only affects personal houses? I have personally seen grandfathered plots that are fc houses, care to explain this?
If there are no loopholes then please explain this:

Is this information out of date? Then if so please provide official information from SE stating this. If you do then I will bow down on this particular argument on who can buy what.

You are clueless. Here are the current requirements for a free company




What you are all overlooking is the temporary changes to purchasing land. Some are still ongoing, some are not. How do I know? I wasn't able to purchase more FC houses on the same account when the new wards were only available to FCs or personal houses relocation.

It's true that the limitation on FC houses per account was quietly lifted (probably when personal housing could be bought again), and I actually agree that this is a good thing. SE needs to make up their mind about how to deal with alts, and the housing situation has kind of forced their hand but they're still waffling over it, probably because it goes against their original stance.

Alts were supposed to be completely independent characters in their own right, separate from the "main" and fully actualized. That was the excuse for not being able to mail them from your main (and something something rmt as if they don't just use the FC chest but anyway). Not allowing them to own their own houses is a good move considering the housing shortage, but it breaks from that original premise. You CANNOT be a full characterwhen you're restricted by the other characters on the account. For this reason, the FC restriction was good only as a temporary measure alongside the temporary freeze on personal housing purchases, to allow homeless FCs the chance to snag houses without worrying about someone buying a bunch of them up in single-person FCs with their alts. However, there are a number of players with multiple active characters that they have in separate FCs and IN GENERAL if one of those FCs happens to not have a house, they shouldn't have to kick someone just because their alt is in a different FC with a house. It was a special situation, and it's over now. The playerbase as a whole shouldn't have to be that restricted on a regular basis, especially on smaller servers (like mine, where there are still lots of empty houses sitting at the minimum price).

Correct, it was a temporary change while they were altering the current housing rules. There is nothing stopping a player from owning 1 FC house and 1 personal house per character right now. Until SE changes the rules people should be focused on trying to alter the rules, not witch hunt players because they had the resources and patience to play the game with in the rules.

Thats not how the temp rule worked. You could have multiple characters on the same world in multiple FC's, but if one of more of those FC's owned a home no other character on that world could purchase a FC home.
The temp rules!! No where does it say you could not have every character on a single world in a FC.

[Penthea]

What are you even going on about, you completely missed what I was saying and ended up extrapolating. Once again, you're hard pressed to put words into other people's mouth.

No I didn't. It appears that I had outdated info, and that SE have not publicly stated that the limitation on the purchasing of fc houses was lifted, if the information you have provided is to be believed. I bow down on this particular argument. You are correct. You can buy multiple fc plots without loopholes. I am more informed about this now. Thank you.

However you're still very wrong that grandfathered players are not causing issues, and this claim that the houses they own are dropping every week is something you pulled out of the air. I asked how you knew this and you provided no source whatsoever despite being someone who clearly is on a mission to prove me wrong. I am still waiting.

[Themarvin]

Why do you people even care about grandfathered houses? Don't you understand that the actual amount of grandfathered houses is pretty much meaningless and it keeps going down every week? It makes no sense to complain about a small minority of players owning more than 1 personal house when you can have 8 FC houses, with a lvl 1 character as the leader and unique member, since the restriction does not apply to FCs anymore.

Based on what data do you see the amount of grandfathered houses going down? I would certainly like to see the link or source you got it from, ty.

And that minority of players, may own 5 to 20+ houses FC/Private which is a problem when servers start to fill up, and they do, that IS what is causing the problem, just because it is not such an active problem on own server, does not mean that I can't have an opinion about the issue.

Personally I would be ok with someone owning 20 houses under one condition, and that is you pay for 10 subscriptions and have 1 personal house and 1 FC house on each.

[Penthea]

Based on what data do you see the amount of grandfathered houses going down? I would certainly like to see the link or source you got it from, ty.

You won't get a source for it because there is none that they can provide. I didn't read their last post because I have them blocked now, but other times they answered this it was little more than napkin math based on their personal experience on only one server along with conveniently overlooking anything that contested their claim.

The only ones who know how many grandfathered plots are demolished every week are SE. I seriously doubt MaybeOliverB works for SE.

Personally I would be ok with someone owning 20 houses under one condition, and that is you pay for 10 subscriptions and have 1 personal house and 1 FC house on each.

I don't know if you know this, but SE have quietly lifted the purchase restrictions on fc houses, so now the current limit is one private home and eight fc houses. A few posts ago MaybeOliverB informed me of this. SE's information about this on the lodestone is out of date. I suppose they quietly lifted it because they didn't want to encourage players to start hoarding again.

So I don't know if you mean the purchase restriction should be reduced back to what it was at 4.2, or if you were unaware that it was lifted.

And that minority of players, may own 5 to 20+ houses FC/Private which is a problem when servers start to fill up, and they do, that IS what is causing the problem, just because it is not such an active problem on own server, does not mean that I can't have an opinion about the issue.

The data centre splits makes me both hopeful and concerned. It does mean that many players who leave crowded servers will finally have a chance to get a house elsewhere, but this doesn't mean each will be a success story. I expect to see posts from people saying things like "I thought I would have the chance to get a house on <server> but all the wards are full and I can't transfer for a few days while the empty plots elsewhere are being bought. I'll never get a house." and "I left my house behind to go to the same data centre as my friends and the server I moved to has no plots left". We already saw similar happen before with the first free transfers. It's one of the primary reasons why those two players on Mateus became so controversial.

The only way SE could mitigate this without changing the system is if they bring in more wards at the same time, but as far as I recall they did not mention the intention to do so before 5.0. Of course they can at 5.0 but that's several months after 4.5.

[MaybeOliverB]

Based on what data do you see the amount of grandfathered houses going down? I would certainly like to see the link or source you got it from, ty.

And that minority of players, may own 5 to 20+ houses FC/Private which is a problem when servers start to fill up, and they do, that IS what is causing the problem, just because it is not such an active problem on own server, does not mean that I can't have an opinion about the issue.

Personally I would be ok with someone owning 20 houses under one condition, and that is you pay for 10 subscriptions and have 1 personal house and 1 FC house on each.

Based on common sense. If you still think there are grandfathered FC houses at this point or that grandfathered personal houses are a problem, I suggest reading my posts again.