This video tells you why some people thought FFXIV 1.2. is a better MMO than 2.0

[Theplatter]

Ah, sorry, I meant "anything", but my brain typed "everything". Still, I'm still not sure what you heard that reminds you of Star Wars. I can't think of any track that comes to mind close towards that type of style anyways.

Teleport into Little Ala Mihgo at night and you'll swear Luke's aunt and uncle were just murdered. I'm aware it's not John Williams' score note-for-note, but the inspiration is still very much there.

[Nalfein]

I've been thinking... why doesn't OP just move to one of the more English speaking servers? Like Tonberry and (I think) Masamune? Assuming they don't speak Japanese, of course.

Masamune mostly Japanese speakers Nestama, he'd have better chances finding people speaking English on Tonberry yes.

[Nestama]

I still belive its just an account to troll on
Since this is there alt and are afraid there main will be banned for some reason.

Most likely the case. They're either ignoring anyone who disagrees with them, or doubles down because they can't accept that 1.0-1.23 is a bad game.
I get that 1.23 was an improvement over 1.0, but if a game isn't drawing in new customers despite being free to play for X amount of time (I forget how many months), then it's still a failure and a waste to keep working on. How many people were even playing 1.23 before the server closed?

I've yet to even get a clear answer on whether OP even does Extreme (or Savage) content.

Masamune mostly Japanese speakers Nestama, he'd have better chances finding people speaking English on Tonberry yes.

Ah. I was trying to remember if there was a second English speaking server on the Japanese data centres and my mind was thinking "Masamune probably." Either because "Sephiroth had that sword and he's popular so maybe?" or I heard that's where an English community was some years ago... or my brain made things up again. Either way, Tonberry still an option

[Nalfein]

Ah. I was trying to remember if there was a second English speaking server on the Japanese data centres and my mind was thinking "Masamune probably." Either because "Sephiroth had that sword and he's popular so maybe?" or I heard that's where an English community was some years ago... or my brain made things up again. Either way, Tonberry still an option

Yes right, years ago some of my friends moved to Tonberry for raid. Back in those days there were still people speaking English on the server, nowadays not so much though.

[Sandpark]

I played old school MMO's too and let me just say that it's not a BS concept. I'm tired of spending 5 years to get even a small centimeter of progress into Goal A. Gamers evolve alongside technology and the current trends.

XIV as it is now is a breath of fresh air where I don't need to spend months to years to achieve something because no one has that kind of time anymore to waste on one video game.

We all thought it was fun to grind back then because it was the only thing we had and the only thing we knew.

We're all smarter now. You can either move on with the rest of us, enjoy life, and enjoy the way MMO's have changed...or you can stay in the past clinging to something that's never coming back.

I agree 5 years is too long to get any kind of progress, but at least if it did take that long you would have something you worked hard for with sustainability that is not just a skin. What is the shelf life of content being relevant if you can get everything it offers in 3-9 months?

I played XI 8 years. But it took me roughly 3 months to get a max level character and about a year and a half to get the awesome gear I wanted from Sky. People say they have no time to waste on one videogame. Everyone has the time, more gamers game than ever before. This is the cheapest form of prolonged entertainment in the industries.Not everyone chooses to invest in one game but some do.

A subscription based persistent rpg by design is to get the highest amount of subscribers possible, but even more important is how many subscribers you can keep subscribed over a long period of time.

That census from Blancho I keep seeing has the sub base alternating between 400-750k subscribers. That's about 200k above peak what XI had and nowhere near Wow's prime of what was it 12 or 14 million? That is still pretty good but out of the 14 million purchasers of XIV, only 800k sub long term or leave and get replaced. So while the game is overall healthy it also not maintaining a 1/3 of all purchases. What does that mean??

That alot of people tried XIV and a bunch left for greener pastures, but players still unsub and return in a decent cycle.

I don't want one goal to take 5 years in one game, but I sure as hell want long term goals. I have 10,000 single player games for short term goals and novelty. But if one game can give me multiple long term goals and they have a different progression and a sense of novelty in new things so I am not doing the same thing I have done since first playing. I am all in. That is why I play mmorpgs in the first place. Endless content, endless ways to progress, and a lifetime of fun and friends to journey with. No single player game can hold a candle to that even if it amazes more in short spurts.

Edit:
The one thing I do like about how this game short shelf life system works is it saves me money and gives me more time to spend on other games. So I agree with you on that front. I mean I lose my house everytime I stay unsubscribed for awhile, lost three houses so far lol. But if there was more variance in content, good variance. I would never unsubscribe.

[Sigma-Astra]

I agree 5 years is too long to get any kind of progress, but at least if it did take that long you would have something you worked hard for with sustainability that is not just a skin. What is the shelf life of content being relevant if you can get everything it offers in 3-9 months?

Point #1 Well, for one (haha, pun, don't shoot me), the shelf life of the current content for XIV is fine for me because I still don't have all of my characters with maxed out jobs, perfect ilvls, alts finished, etc....the point of these modern MMO's is to take breaks in-between and not shovel everything it offers into your mouth like an all-you-can-eat buffet. That's not what they're for. I've been playing XIV for 5+ years since then and still don't have everything it's offered. Yoshi had already explicitly said in live interviews for players to take frequent breaks and to not focus their entire attention span on one single game because no game designer, especially for MMO's, will ever be able to produce enough content as fast as the masses eat it up. If something doesn't last you for longer than 3 months, that's a personal issue with yourself, not with the game itself. You are moving too fast and I get it that some people really love XIV and want to play it, but brute forcing everything in a matter of months is not what XIV's content is made for. I worked very hard, too hard, in vanilla Ragnarok Online, and for what? It took me years to grind out my best armor sets with cards, get my favorite classes to level 180. Nothing I did in that game is anything to write home about and after I graduated college, I dropped it for better hobbies. Grinding out for a set of wings and while having them at that time did make me feel great, it's nothing but a nostalgic memory now, and something best stayed as a memory. Nothing more than that.

I played XI 8 years. But it took me roughly 3 months to get a max level character and about a year and a half to get the awesome gear I wanted from Sky. People say they have no time to waste on one videogame. Everyone has the time, more gamers game than ever before. This is the cheapest form of prolonged entertainment in the industries.Not everyone chooses to invest in one game but some do.

A lot of this can be answered with my first point, but to counter the bold parts specifically. You can't make that judgemental call, and you really can't speak for everyone that they have the time for XI's nonsense, for 1.0's nonsense, for any old-style MMO's nonsense in this day and age. To be frank, neither can I, but I'm only speaking about myself, I'm not going to tag on "everyone" and make generalized sweeping statements as you have done. It really doesn't matter that more people, young and old, play more games than ever before. That doesn't mean that they have more time, it just means that the appeal and variety of genres has shifted, the target audience for games has shifted. Video games used to be recognized as children only hobbies, but now it's been recognized that even adults from varying ages and backgrounds have interest in them, that both genders have interest in them. A lot has shifted since the early and late 90's. I run a very tight, household ship. I have so many games to play and not enough time to do them. I work two jobs and take care of three other people plus myself. The way modern MMO's have shifted works for my lifestyle and I believe that modern and future game designers have recognized that nowadays, life can be very short to live in this era. In childhood, it made sense to have grinding mechanics since children would have the MOST free-time on their hands aside from school, but now we have adults making a large portion of the gaming target audience, people who work, take care of families, have other hobbies, and play on their spare time. That's what the gaming industry is targeting, people with mild to average free-time...not people who have an over-abundance of it anymore.

That census from Blancho I keep seeing has the sub base alternating between 400-750k subscribers. That's about 200k above peak what XI had and nowhere near Wow's prime of what was it 12 or 14 million? That is still pretty good but out of the 14 million purchasers of XIV, only 800k sub long term or leave and get replaced. So while the game is overall healthy it also not maintaining a 1/3 of all purchases. What does that mean??

Take it to mind that it's not an official census and critically, there's really no way to get an accurate or official representation of the game's health and playerbase status. This is all a guessing game. Also, it's kinda unfair to prop anything against WoW since it was an anomaly for it's time. Both XIV and WoW will bleed and gain subs with an on and off ratio, similar to the ocean's tide. It will have its ebb and flow. It's a natural cycle.

I don't want one goal to take 5 years in one game, but I sure as hell want long term goals. I have 10,000 single player games for short term goals and novelty. But if one game can give me multiple long term goals and they have a different progression and a sense of novelty in new things so I am not doing the same thing I have done since first playing. I am all in. That is why I play mmorpgs in the first place. Endless content, endless ways to progress, and a lifetime of fun and friends to journey with. No single player game can hold a candle to that even if it amazes more in short spurts.

It's fine to set long term goals for yourself in any scenario, but setting long-term goals won't help if you're consuming content faster than they can make it. Regarding the idea of endless content in MMO's, eh...I wouldn't call it endless, but it's definitely with a higher longevity than single player games.

The one thing I do like about how this game short shelf life system works is it saves me money and gives me more time to spend on other games. So I agree with you on that front. I mean I lose my house every time I stay unsubscribed for awhile, lost three houses so far lol. But if there was more variance in content, good variance. I would never unsubscribe.

I haven't unsubscribed since I joined and own two properties over the course of five years plus. Even when I'm not always playing XIV, I still pay my subscription...I wouldn't so much as blame the game that you've lost three houses due to your personal tastes in its content, but I'd ask yourself if paying that $14 is financially straining that you'd forgo your house simply because you didn't feel like playing that day, week, or month. Losing three houses, while completely sucks, just makes it seem like they weren't that important to you already, at least in my eyes.

[Sandpark]

I haven't unsubscribed since I joined and own two properties over the course of five years plus. Even when I'm not always playing XIV, I still pay my subscription...I wouldn't so much as blame the game that you've lost three houses due to your personal tastes in its content, but I'd ask yourself if paying that $14 is financially straining that you'd forgo your house simply because you didn't feel like playing that day, week, or month. Losing three houses, while completely sucks, just makes it seem like they weren't that important to you already, at least in my eyes.

I don't blame the game for that. I don't pay for something I am not using frequently and it's not because I am broke. I don't pay for services I am not using enough during the "scheduled as a service term". This goes for Netflix, TV cable, movie pass, and everything else. I should have clarified that I stayed subbed to FFXI 8 years, not only played it.

A lot of this can be answered with my first point, but to counter the bold parts specifically. You can't make that judgemental call, and you really can't speak for everyone that they have the time for XI's nonsense, for 1.0's nonsense, for any old-style MMO's nonsense in this day and age. To be frank, neither can I, but I'm only speaking about myself, I'm not going to tag on "everyone" and make generalized sweeping statements as you have done. It really doesn't matter that more people, young and old, play more games than ever before. That doesn't mean that they have more time, it just means that the appeal and variety of genres has shifted, the target audience for games has shifted. Video games used to be recognized as children only hobbies, but now it's been recognized that even adults from varying ages and backgrounds have interest in them, that both genders have interest in them. A lot has shifted since the early and late 90's. I run a very tight, household ship. I have so many games to play and not enough time to do them. I work two jobs and take care of three other people plus myself. The way modern MMO's have shifted works for my lifestyle and I believe that modern and future game designers have recognized that nowadays, life can be very short to live in this era. In childhood, it made sense to have grinding mechanics since children would have the MOST free-time on their hands aside from school, but now we have adults making a large portion of the gaming target audience, people who work, take care of families, have other hobbies, and play on their spare time. That's what the gaming industry is targeting, people with mild to average free-time...not people who have an over-abundance of it anymore.

No but I can. Everyone has the same amount of time, 24 hours a day, 6-12 hour workdays. What a developer cannot control is what you do with your time off. You have the same amount of time you had when you were a child, you just prioritize other things first.

Not saying it is wrong to have a life outside games as I do as well. But everyone has times for hobbies or recreation. Even if I only had 2 hours a day of absolute free time, when all the chores and responsibilities are done. That is 14 hours per week. More than enough time to accomplish something in a game. Whether it is an old school game like EQ or FFXI or a modern game like GW2 or FFXIV.

[CosmicKirby]

OP's habit of calling our current game "Retail" kind of outs him a someone, if not interested in WoW Classic, than someone who frequents those discussions. As they constantly refer to the live version of the game as 'retail' because many of the people in that conversation played on private/pirate servers of the vanilla game.

Gods forbid you ever suggest that nostalgia or some emotional, and thus not really a logical, factor is deciding why they enjoy the older product over the new. (Regardless of the fact that an emotional attachment is still a valid opinion.)