Hoarding Houses - Sometimes a Depressing Sight (a rant)

[ErryK]

My response got deleted



Oh well, I said what I had to say about this, truth seems to hurt enough to warrant a report.

[Giruvegan]

snip

I'm not sure why you're so invested in painting the people that do this as anything but the purest saints from the highest heaven but considering what I've had to go through in my quest to obtain ONE PLOT, I couldn't care less about people with several. What reason is there to have plots in the double digits? How is that fair to new and future players? What about if there's an influx of people after 5.0 hits? I'm talking about possible server transfers if people decide to make their visits permanent.

Just because SE completely underestimated how ridiculous people would be ( as well as implementing a horrific system ) doesn't mean that those who decided to go to town should get to keep their gains. Everyone should have the same housing limits across the board. Hoarders, Scalpers, Bots, and RMT all thrived because of the actions of many.

Not really sure what point you're trying to make about Lamia either because as I recall VERY VIVIDLY there were serious problems with all of these things for years until some of the last expansions to Wards were added. Selfish and opportunistic types went out their way to make things harder for everyone else. They will not get an ounce of my sympathy.

I couldn't care less what you do to your sub. It's your money.

[Jojoya]

My response got deleted


Oh well, I said what I had to say about this, truth seems to hurt enough to warrant a report.

Except it wasn't truth. It was your personal opinion and that's all it was. There is room for housing in this game as much as there is in any MMORPG. We are, after all, roleplaying our characters. Not everyone thinks of their character as a homeless murder hobo.

Not sure why the mods felt a need to delete it without also deleting all the replies quoting it, though. It was just your opinion and nothing particularly inflammatory.

I'm not sure why you're so invested in painting the people that do this as anything but the purest saints from the highest heaven but considering what I've had to go through in my quest to obtain ONE PLOT, I couldn't care less about people with several. What reason is there to have plots in the double digits? How is that fair to new and future players? What about if there's an influx of people after 5.0 hits? I'm talking about possible server transfers if people decide to make their visits permanent.

Just because SE completely underestimated how ridiculous people would be ( as well as implementing a horrific system ) doesn't mean that those who decided to go to town should get to keep their gains. Everyone should have the same housing limits across the board. Hoarders, Scalpers, Bots, and RMT all thrived because of the actions of many.

Not really sure what point you're trying to make about Lamia either because as I recall VERY VIVIDLY there were serious problems with all of these things for years until some of the last expansions to Wards were added. Selfish and opportunistic types went out their way to make things harder for everyone else. They will not get an ounce of my sympathy.

I couldn't care less what you do to your sub. It's your money.

Wouldn't it be better for SE to improve things so the limits could be increased to accommodate all players who would like to own multiple houses instead of taking houses away from those who obtained them in a legitimate fashion?

As people have repeatedly pointed out, taking away the relatively few houses from the multi-house owners is ineffective in meeting the demand that still exists on many servers. So you get maybe a hundred houses at most freed up on the overpopulated servers. That does nothing for the thousands who still won't be able to get one after those hundred get purchased.

[Penthea]

If you had 7 houses, each of them exquisitely decorated and the storage probably full of furniture too, how would you feel if SE suddenly demolished 6 of them?

Been a while since I have been in my own thread.

I would never have seven houses because I would feel too guilty to even consider knowingly permanently depriving other players of housing. Decorating is one of my favourite things to do. I lvled up all my crafters with the sole intention of supporting my love for housing. If houses were in an unlimited quantity, I would take great joy in owning as many as ten.

I actually had the opportunity to have two personal houses, twice. The first time I snagged a plot on an alt and waited for my friends' fc to get to rank 6, and I later demolished it so they could take it. The second time I snagged a plot on another alt for a friend who I knew wanted a house badly but was at work when the plot became empty. I did not receive any form of payment for what I did. I have far more gil than I need and I was happy to use it to help my friends get their houses. I even ended up paying for one of those plots twice.

The plot I held for that fc, I had it for over a month because that fc was very small at the time and it was during exam time for the members so they couldn't play a lot until their exams were over. It took them a while to get to rank 6. Even though I bought the plot with the full intention of releasing it for free, I honestly still felt guilty about it. I did wonder if I took a plot someone else would have adored even more than my friends, from someone else who waited for years to get a house. I wondered did someone's heart sink when they saw the icon on the map change after it was purchased. Even though I knew I was going to release it to players who wanted it so much, I still had that nagging feeling that I deprived someone of a house right up until I demolished it.

So no, I cannot put myself in the place of someone who lovingly decorated their seven homes because I am incapable of taking more than what I considered at the time to be my fair share. And it seemed SE agreed with what that fair share was too given that they changed the amount of houses a player could own on a server to one fc house and one private house, save for those they grandfathered in of course.

I could have been one of these grandfathered players. Estimating the amount of free plots I saw before 4.2, I could have owned twelve houses. But apparently in these forums I'm a strange person for not taking them, and for not arguing that they should never be taken from me even though it literally deprives other players of playable content. I find it quite sad to see players defending those who are blocking others from accessing content with their greed. Perhaps they have forgotten what it is like to have the money to buy a house and see nothing but full wards for months or even years. Perhaps they never knew.

While the housing situation is far better than before, and quite a lot of servers do have unclaimed plots, this still doesn't fix the issue that not all plots are equal. Most of the time these free plots are small. As long as certain furniture has limitations based on house size, a cottage will never be truly enough for a fc. I know this from personal experience because my fc started off with a cottage and now has a medium house.

My personal house is a medium and I do feel guilty about it sometimes because I know it's quite big for one person. But I love gardening and SE only allow one gardening patch for cottages. This was why I aimed for a medium. I would seriously consider downsizing if that limitation was removed.

So for anyone who had the patience to read these walls of text, maybe now you can understand my stance with housing better even if you don't agree with it.

-----

And now for more walls.

Despite what people may think of me from what I said in this thread, I don't want anyone to have anything taken away from them. I want a different housing system but I don't see that situation realistically happening. We have had countless threads asking for a system that would benefit all equally and the few times we have been answered it's just been tweak after tweak. The likelihood of SE letting go of the ward system, or introducing an additional housing system, is sadly very small. So the best we realistically can hope for is more tweaks.

I would prefer instanced housing, not just because it would mean everyone could keep everything forever, but also because of experiences such as:

My fc had the unfortunate situation in which a player arrived near the fc plot who had bullied a fc member in the past, and understandably they were greatly upset at seeing them. At the time there were some unclaimed plots nearby and they were terrified that person would buy one. If we had instanced housing everyone could feel safe at their personal or fc plots inside and outside, and would never have to worry who their neighbours might be.

I once went into a friend's house and found people doing emotes in such a way that it appeared to be like sexual intercourse (I'm sure we have all seen them by now). My friend asked them to leave but they refused to. It was at least 20 minutes before they left. My friend kept their house locked for months after that, which meant inviting anyone who wasn't a tenant became tiresome. If we had instanced housing this wouldn't have happened. My friend could keep their door unlocked for all their friends, but locked to everyone else.

Another friend had to take down their target dummy from their garden because a nearby fc was constantly using it. They love their plot location and like to go there to craft or just to chill out while queuing. But this fc invaded their garden and repeatedly came back no matter how many times they were asked to get a dummy for their own garden instead of using someone else's. They finally got their own one, but only after my friend took down theirs.

I have other little stories like this, but these are the ones that stand out. The first one was particularly alarming for me because as a fc leader I have a duty to keep my members happy and I honestly felt powerless in that situation. I can't really report a player for going somewhere that is a public venue, nor can I stop them from buying a house nearby. Though that situation lead to little other than worry that eventually dissipated, this doesn't mean it won't happen again and could lead to something more. I care deeply for my fc and if we had instanced housing I could control the environment of our fc house far better.

And finally to add my small hope for the future:

At the last fan fest SE hinted at Ishgard housing, and also revealed content in which we would help repair Ishgard. My hope is that the reward for this will be a proper instanced house for the WoL as thanks for helping rebuild the city. Extremely unlikely, but I'm hoping.

[Themarvin]

Just revoke the grandfathering and give those that have multiple houses a choice in which one they want to keep, it is simple as that whenever it get to it, bad PR or not, in this case it would not be bad PR to give everyone a fair or better chance at even getting their first house... I don't think so, SE has all the rights to change gameplay over time, if want to have multiple houses play a game like Starwars Galaxy EMU or something down those lines, there you can even build cities in the open, or go for minecraft or something.

It say in the ToS somewhere that gameplay and requirements may change over time, and that is a legit document that every players has signed, also as a player you don't own your account SE does and can be set free to change stuff with making an addition to the ToS you have to sign to be able to log into the game with eg. the next patch.

No need to @me on this either, view and standpoint will not change to that either.

On that note, if people decide to have 10 paid subscriptions, 10 houses and 10 FCs would be ok with that as it is 10 different accounts

[MizArai]

Despite what people may think of me from what I said in this thread, I don't want anyone to have anything taken away from them.

I wonder why people might think that... looks at original post

I know players are allowed to do what they want with their houses, and this does include doing nothing, but as long as there are limited plots then SE should do their best to make sure as many players as possible benefit from the current system. Grandfathering goes against that.

I really hope SE will soon make all characters have access to the same private home, and at the same time take away excess housing from these grandfathered players. No one needs seven houses.

Looks like people might think you want things taken away from them because you said exactly that.

If we had instanced housing this wouldn't have happened. My friend could keep their door unlocked for all their friends, but locked to everyone else.

You're assuming that the locks for instanced housing would be different than what we currently have, when they probably would not. Apartments and FC rooms are an all or nothing kind of deal since there are no tenants. Houses are tenants only or everyone. If we had a friend only option, then your friend could have done that with their current house (no need for instanced housing in this example).

With all that said, SE, please, please, please give us a third option for locking our house where only people on our friend list can come in. Also, despite me pointing out it wasn't needed in that example, I'd love to see an instanced housing system in addition to the wards we currently have. I personally really like the feel of the wards, but I understand many people do not and wards are a huge strain on the servers that really cannot address the housing needs of the more populated servers. We need another type of housing which can grow with the population of a server and some form of instanced housing would probably be the best solution for that.

[Themarvin]

I wonder why people might think that... looks at original post



Looks like people might think you want things taken away from them because you said exactly that.



You're assuming that the locks for instanced housing would be different than what we currently have, when they probably would not. Apartments and FC rooms are an all or nothing kind of deal since there are no tenants. Houses are tenants only or everyone. If we had a friend only option, then your friend could have done that with their current house (no need for instanced housing in this example).

With all that said, SE, please, please, please give us a third option for locking our house where only people on our friend list can come in. Also, despite me pointing out it wasn't needed in that example, I'd love to see an instanced housing system in addition to the wards we currently have. I personally really like the feel of the wards, but I understand many people do not and wards are a huge strain on the servers that really cannot address the housing needs of the more populated servers. We need another type of housing which can grow with the population of a server and some form of instanced housing would probably be the best solution for that.

The current housing system is instanced, you travel to another instance with house plots in them and the houses themself is instances, having it hard instanced so you can't meet your neighbors and the likes, no thank you please.

[MizArai]

Just revoke the grandfathering and give those that have multiple houses a choice in which one they want to keep, it is simple as that whenever it get to it, bad PR or not, in this case it would not be bad PR to give everyone a fair or better chance at even getting their first house... I don't think so, SE has all the rights to change gameplay over time, if want to have multiple houses play a game like Starwars Galaxy EMU or something down those lines, there you can even build cities in the open, or go for minecraft or something.

It say in the ToS somewhere that gameplay and requirements may change over time, and that is a legit document that every players has signed, also as a player you don't own your account SE does and can be set free to change stuff with making an addition to the ToS you have to sign to be able to log into the game with eg. the next patch.

No need to @me on this either, view and standpoint will not change to that either.

You've played a game for 5 years, bought multiple houses at these prices, and now because there are more people playing than SE thought would want to play you should have to give up something you worked really hard for? How is it fair to take something away from a player that they have had for years because more people started playing the game? Especially when there are servers like Zalera, Goblin, Brynhildr, & Coeurl that have tons of empty plots available? While this might not change your mind, I hope that it might give you something to think about, and maybe give you a bit of empathy for some of the people on the other side. And the User Agreement we all agreed to when starting the game has not been changed at all since August 24, 2013. I would hazard to guess that while you're correct that SE can change it at any point, they aren't going to any time soon (even though it really should have been updated a few times since then).

The current housing system is instanced, you travel to another instance with house plots in them and the houses themself is instances, having it hard instanced so you can't meet your neighbors and the likes, no thank you please.

I love our ward system. Many others do not. I would like to see the option for those that do want it, and maybe as a way for all characters to be able to have their own house and not just an apartment (or maybe just an apartment if they really do expand them like they said they were looking into).
quick edit - As I understand it our current housing system is not truly instanced with all of the wards from all of the worlds constantly taking up space like the other worlds zones on the servers. While the insides of the houses are instanced, the wards themselves are not.

[Penthea]

I wonder why people might think that... looks at original post

Looks like people might think you want things taken away from them because you said exactly that.

Why is it so difficult for you to understand that I am asking for what SE are more likely to do than for what they're exceptionally unlikely to do? Have you not heard of the phrase "lesser of two evils"? Or does this not apply to housing because that would mean vaguely agreeing with me?

Years, literal years, have shown us they're not leaving the ward system behind and they're not going to do an overhaul. Unless the community rally together in a wave like with the Shirogane launch the likelihood of getting a better housing system is near zero.

And no, grandfathered players losing houses won't personally suit me because I already am at the limit as to how much housing I can access, and I presently have no intention of relocating plots. I would have zero personal gain from them losing their houses. I am thinking of other players not as fortunate as I am but this has somehow become a novel concept here. It seems now most people are more interested in protecting the special circumstances of hoarders than thinking of the housing community as a whole. This has become a weird game of monopoly.

Sigh I suppose there will be more posts preaching at me to ask SE to do something better than remove grandfathering. Well I have to say to those people, why don't you make those threads? I cared enough about housing to make this one, do you not care enough about housing to make your own with your views and ideas? And if I think it's good, you'll see me there giving my support even if you are one of the people who strongly disagreed with me here.

I want everyone to have as many houses as they want. I just don't believe SE will ever put us in the position for this to happen. But if you want to fight for it, I'll fight for it with you.

You're assuming that the locks for instanced housing would be different than what we currently have, when they probably would not

We're both assuming considering a proper instanced house system literally doesn't exist in this game.

[Giruvegan]

Wouldn't it be better for SE to improve things so the limits could be increased to accommodate all players who would like to own multiple houses instead of taking houses away from those who obtained them in a legitimate fashion?

As people have repeatedly pointed out, taking away the relatively few houses from the multi-house owners is ineffective in meeting the demand that still exists on many servers. So you get maybe a hundred houses at most freed up on the overpopulated servers. That does nothing for the thousands who still won't be able to get one after those hundred get purchased.

I guess you missed the part where I said that I think the number of houses everyone owns should be equal. If hoarding wasn't possible it would exclude less people trying to get the chance to experience this content. I don't think house hoarders should be accommodated at all, at least as long as housing is a limited resource.