Would anybody like to see more Jobs per Class?

[azura84]

I think this system is actually more successful than the devs give it credit for. The issues with SCH/SMN stemmed from the old attribute system and the INT stat being the source of damage for both SMN and SCH. As it is right now, it actually isn't that bad of a concept. It was just implemented incorrectly. I don't play SMN, but one of the issues I have and many others have are the lack of true summons, which has nothing to do with the ACN base class. SCH is currently flying high amongst our healers. There are no issues I am currently aware of with SMN as a result of sharing the starting class with SCH, but someone can feel free to enlighten me.

I believe the devs wanting to go away from classes has more to do with where they want to go with the game than the system being fundamentally flawed. I find it to be really cool to start off in a weaker discipline that grows into a true job, which was a big reason why I opposed RDM and SAM starting at 50. I found this to be far more lazy than practical.

Indeed, I feel as though they are cutting their own legs out from under themselves; we get less time to feel the job and then when we do by 69 many of the jobs rotations change a LOT at 70 due to final abilities and traits. Unfortunately that is where I also find the biggest flaw in this multiple jobs per class idea, half the work and a full leveled job without knowing the job. Level 70 SMN's trying SCH for the first time and visa versa.

[azura84]

It would take a full rebuild of the class for them support a second job of a different role.

I'm not picking on you Captain, but I gotta agree with Reynhart, just as with SMN and SCH you make the first 30 levels of abilities things that are universal and the core of the jobs rotations, then the jobs tailor the class to be a change to either DPS, Healer or Tank. Gladiators and Paladins would love a single sword wielding DPS job they could alternate to. Personally I wish we had more TYPES (DPS,TANK,HEALS), like they could easily create a Support type that has some dots or something but was primarily designed to enhance the party or more significantly debuff the enemy, unfortunately SE hasn't been comfortable or successful with stepping outside their wheelhouse since ARR (talking about daidem, eureka, PoTD backlash) and I highly doubt they'd be willing to risk upsetting the decent balance of roles they currently have, i mean since ARR they've dumbed a LOT of things down like personally plugging in our own stats per level increase, removing resistances all together, and the fact there is zero elemental effect is rather unprecidented in any FF game. I get unaspected damage but when you've got a huge hitter like BLM casting Fire 4 on Leviathan it really shouldn't be killing him, I dont care how upset people get about balance, that is just stupid.

[loreleidiangelo]

No, no more jobs to classes please. Arcanist/SMN /SCH was a big enough debacle.

Nothing like being a struggling SMN during my Final Coil days and SE's response on the balancing subject to basically be "keep being broken until HW because we can't figure out how to buff your awful mana consumption without breaking the already extremely mana-efficient SCH, gg no re".

Seriously, separate the two already, and make SCH's base class an actual healer job before 30 so dungeon queues aren't clogged up by prospective SCHs stuck on DPS ACN until a certain point in the MSQ.

[Dzian]

FF14's gathering is like solving a calculus problem.

14s gathering is a simple as it could possibly be. List of items. Just click the one you want to gather. Done. Doesn'tget any simpler than that.

actively used[/B] hot bars reach teens.

I hope this is an exaggeration. I've never used more than 4. And one of them is full of stuff I never use. Aether compass, zodiac glass, old quest items...

Anyways. While I wouldn't want to see new jobs branching from classes there are some jobs I wouldn't mind seeing that use existing weapons. If ranger existed I'd probably never touch bard again.

[Reynhart]

I also find the biggest flaw in this multiple jobs per class idea, half the work and a full leveled job without knowing the job. Level 70 SMN's trying SCH for the first time and visa versa.

Strangely, I feel this would be the strongest point of that system. Even if the job is not the same, you still have a lot of skills shared, so you don't really start from scratch. For example, if you know how to manage the Lancer skills by playing a DRG, you might be comfortable trying a LNC-based tank instead of learning a completely new class.

[Shurrikhan]

They said acanist dual job was a mistake and will never do it again.

They may as well say that staplers are weapons because they once nicked their own finger with one. The issue wasn't anything fundamental; it was in the details of implementation.

A shared base doesn't have to mean anything beyond the 1-30 experience already having completed itself. They needn't share experience beyond that, nor technically even skills (SCH and SMN already retroactively change skills and traits).

I'd eventually like to see Gunner introduced prior to Machinist and Gunner and Archer branch to Marksman and Ranger, respectively. They're distinct enough from Machinist and Bard in their niche and gameplay to be fun and diverse jobs, but not distinct enough in lore to warrant their implementation otherwise.

[dinnertime]

There are no issues I am currently aware of with SMN as a result of sharing the starting class with SCH, but someone can feel free to enlighten me.

As someone who plays both jobs (mainly SMN) I can say that there's no issues with them sharing ACN as a base class now. Some of the ACN skills they've shared are replaced with job skills which pretty much ends the dev team's struggles of balancing both. They're essentially split apart now, but not exactly.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Well they've been moving away from the class -> job system since HW. I felt there was wasted potential in that system. In single linear progression yeah its not really needed for the most part. However I would have preferred all classes had branching role options with job stones but that's just my preference as I enjoyed these choices on character development in other MMOs and the job/class system here would allow for respec'ing a character without actually having to create a new character and start from scratch.

[Derio]

No the balancing was hard enough on devs for SMN and SCH.

[Shurrikhan]

No the balancing was hard enough on devs for SMN and SCH.

It had no reason to be, and not one of the limitations that applied then still apply today. SMN and SCH remain exp-linked by intentional design, not by some system constraint, as does every shared skill or trait; both jobs have shown they they can make as many retroactive changes to the 1-30 kit as they like through the replacement of Arcanist traits and, previously, the pruning of certain Arcanist skills.

Nothing like being a struggling SMN during my Final Coil days and SE's response on the balancing subject to basically be "keep being broken until HW because we can't figure out how to buff your awful mana consumption without breaking the already extremely mana-efficient SCH, gg no re".

Seriously, separate the two already.

What does it matter now, though? Just as you've implied, these issues haven't existed since HW.

I'd be nice to see them level separately, at least past 50, but there's zero balance or functionality need for a split. Short of a rework to flesh out job identity, of which several unshared jobs are still in greater need, it's pointless.