[Request] BLU concerns regarding toxicity - apply to rest of game

[NocturniaUzuki]

I disagree.

Player toxicity, as well as player stupidity, is ultimately a player-driven problem. They will find other ways to be stupid. Adding even more needless restrictions to the queuing system just locks us out of doing the things we want. If you're queuing with DF, you basically signed a contract saying "I will consent to play with whoever the hell the system puts me with, regardless of whether said person is an idiot." There are other solutions to this problem already. You can boot the player with the vote system, or ignore their presence entirely. Someone said something about a Lv. 47 GLA in AV? Not that big a deal. You don't NEED a tank (or even a healer) to clear AV if you know what you're doing. But then if you can't pull it off with just 1 healer and 2 DPS, that's what the 'find new member' system is for.

I've had plenty of bad parties. Sometimes my roulette takes 45 minutes instead of 10-15. But you work with what you get. Think of it as a challenge to yourself. How can we do this with a deadweight player? Don't just give up leave, then blame the player. Take the opportunity to learn to do things in other ways.

[BillyKaplan]

Player toxicity, as well as player stupidity, is ultimately a player-driven problem.

One the devs have acknowledged they take into consideration when designing new content. So they should be consistent in their approach.

They will find other ways to be stupid.

I already admitted this does nothing to take care of player skill - nothing short of SE endorsed bots will do that, and that won't happen.

Adding even more needless restrictions

"Needless"? Content is created and balanced with certain assumptions in mine. Shinryu is a good example, the devs expected people to have at least done their level 70 job quests so they had full 290 left side minus belt. That means a certain amount of vitality. That's what they based Shinryu's unavoidable damage attacks on. If an undergeared player dies to the stack marker when the entire party is stacked, they have no weakness, they have Protect and either an AST or SCH shield on them, then I find it hard to say it works as intended.
The only thing needless here is how much harder for everyone in the instance the fight now is because the healers need to take extra care of that player. Heaven forbids it's one of the healers themselves, or a tank.

the queuing system just locks us out of doing the things we want.

The queueing system already locks you out of doing things you want, until certain requirements are met. Those requirements already include a minimum ilvl for most roulettes - I simply request that this ilvl be modified based on what duties you can complete, which will be a given once all duties have their own min ilvl restriction.

If you're queuing with DF, you basically signed a contract saying "I will consent to play with whoever the hell the system puts me with, regardless of whether said person is an idiot."

The existence of the "leave duty" action says otherwise.

You can boot the player with the vote system

That is literally the scenario Yoshi-P described and said he wanted to avoid regarding BLU. So from the developers' standpoint, it is not acceptable. What I don't get is why they only care about it for BLU. It should apply anywhere, and that is what this thread is here to advocate.

Edit: I should clarify I am only really opposed to #1 and #4.

Content in the game is balanced around the assumption people have their soul crystals and subsequent job-locked skills. If you don't mind #2 and #3, you by definition also agree to #1, because they can't come without it.

I was also in a rush and didn't see the PF bypass. As long as it can be bypassed, go right ahead and restrict all you want

now if only we could do that to the MSQ cutscenes...

[JBee]

Someone said something about a Lv. 47 GLA in AV? Not that big a deal. You don't NEED a tank (or even a healer) to clear AV if you know what you're doing.

Here is the post you were most likely referencing, from earlier in this thread:

I support this.

I've seen a Gladiator lvl 47 in Aurum Vale without doing any of the Class quest... So no Shield Lob, Shield Oath and so forth. It was truly horrible. Manage to pass the 1st room but needed to kick him because he was not listening.

The last section of his post is pretty important - 'because he was not listening.' Often times, the people I have personally ran across who did not have their job crystal soon after reaching 30 were either uninformed (happens) or more often straight up did not care. They are the types of players where the other people running around are little more than mobile npcs to them - we're all supporting actors in the play that is their game. They don't care if they waste someone else's time, but there is hell to pay if someone wastes theirs. They don't care that running as a Marauder instead of a Paladin gives you significantly fewer tools and means to perform your role effectively; etc.

It's those people - the people who are so far down IDGAF Boulevard that grouping with them is going to be at BEST, something you slog through... Because of those people, yes minimum requirements would benefit the vast majority of players. Realistically, it wouldn't adversely affect a lot of people. Maybe someone who JUST hit 30 and wants to jump into an msq dungeon to continue the story might be a little irritated they would need to go do other stuff first. I know I'm guilty of doing a lot of the SB job quests once I hit 70, because I have gear waiting on the job for when it maxes. Some of the solo duties in the 60s were pretty rough if you were a little behind in gear.

But as someone who personally went through a portion of Qarn a few weeks ago with a 30 something Conjuror who didn't have their job stone and was unable to keep the tank alive...so they bailed and we had to sit and wait on a replacement midway through... That was a bad run for 3 people because it. Same went for when I went through B. Wall with a tank that was very poorly equipped. Super nice guy, was there only to help, but his lack of gear was too much for the healer to handle. So he stepped aside after saying repeatedly he had bad gear, and we had to wait for a replacement. Someone even put it in the Tales from Duty Finder a while back.

Just my thoughts and experiences.

[BillyKaplan]

I know I'm guilty of doing a lot of the SB job quests once I hit 70, because I have gear waiting on the job for when it maxes. Some of the solo duties in the 60s were pretty rough if you were a little behind in gear.

The thing is, in SB specifically you're not missing out on anything of any true importance if you do that. If you did that in HW, however, that would be a different story.
Naturally, all the suggestions are to be examined separately. If next xpac lets you theoretically ignore the job quests until the very last one, I don't mind if people don't bother with that because it's ultimately harmless. The question is, at what point do they hinder their performance by definition of missing something (skills, gear, etc)? That's where I want the devs to put a checkpoint.

Same went for when I went through B. Wall with a tank that was very poorly equipped.

That's interesting because B. Wall does actually have an ilvl restriction. Did they pull big despite their min ilvl gear? Though that brings us back to the sad point that there's nothing that can be done about player skill. We can only help them (well, and ourselves) so much through asking for in-game restriction like these.

[Rosentretter]

Player toxicity, as well as player stupidity, is ultimately a player-driven problem. They will find other ways to be stupid. Adding even more needless restrictions to the queuing system just locks us out of doing the things we want.

According to that logic, which one of those are you?

Aurum Vale can probably be done without a tank, or a healer, but you are not gonna get back the amount of time wasted because not having a role covered, or because of being undergeared. The suggestions presented on this thread make enough sense and I really hope SE reads them. There's another thread talking about the ilvl in Castrum Abania. Yesterday I got the most awful tank I've ever seen, undergeared in levels that can't be imagined. We still dealt with it, but the time wasted will never be forgotten.

[Hamada]

One the devs have acknowledged they take into consideration when designing new content. So they should be consistent in their approach

Just here to support your reply to NocturniaUzuki.
You do realize they made changes how dungeons are laid out because of the toxicity during late ARR? They have a lot more artificial barricades because people would overpull during late ARR on newer healers. There is also a limit restrciton on how often you can kick, so some basic guidelines, like the game not letting people queue for level 70 dungeons because they do not have the 70 job quest saves people's times on all fronts. Maybe some people enter level 70 dungeons without doing them because they do not know better. I seen kicks happen before because of it, early SB anyway, doubt you can enter expert NOW like that since the ilevel is too high. So this:

I disagree.
Adding even more needless restrictions to the queuing system just locks us out of doing the things we want.

Why are you saying this? Why should someone not doing their level 70 job quest be allowed to enter? You have people promoting you can enter dungeons naked because the game lets you in another thread. So stuff like this list is very needed.

Do they think their playerbase is that fickle and shallow?

I am shocked they are aware the playerbase is that fickle and shallow, given they do not have requirements to enter most dungeons.