Removing TP

[Gemina]

to this day i wish they'd go back to that system. was so much better and felt so much more powerfull when you did combos

This might be just me, but that system just felt like the ATB system on active. Not saying that's a bad thing as I still play games with an ATB system. I am just not sure it's 'with the times' so to speak as far as today's mmos go.

[bass9020]

My point was more coming from job identity, and lore. Guess that isnt something most care about anymore. I enjoy when classes have there own version of things. I mean some games even give each class there own resource all together. Maybe with 5.0 we will see more of that. Like all the gauges we have now.

[Roda]

My point was more coming from job identity, and lore. Guess that isnt something most care about anymore. I enjoy when classes have there own version of things. I mean some games even give each class there own resource all together. Maybe with 5.0 we will see more of that. Like all the gauges we have now.

I'm right there with you, making every class (especially the new gunblade class) use MP is just weird to me.
I'm hoping that maybe when you switch jobs, your resource bar will act like the appropriate resource like WoW has it.

[kikix12]

My point was more coming from job identity, and lore. Guess that isnt something most care about anymore. I enjoy when classes have there own version of things. I mean some games even give each class there own resource all together. Maybe with 5.0 we will see more of that. Like all the gauges we have now.

From a lore perspective, TP should never exist and HP should be used for physical actions. Physical strength is what you use up during heavy activity. That's why it's possible to overwork yourself to the point of dying. So we're already scratching that assumption off.

If we'll put a different take on it and assume that the energy expenditure of these skills is not large enough compared to the physical prowess of the character over a course of a single dungeon/raid/whatever, then we come to a point where weaponskills costing nothing (because the demand on the body is negligible) but time (cooldowns) is lore-wise more correct.

You are either able to use tactics or not. There is no case where your tactical prowess is lowered, except when you are sick, drunk, drugged or otherwise impaired mentally. That's what pacifism is there for. Cleverness and cunningness simply are never spent on use.

Also MP represents all sorts of resources. It represents hate for Dark Knight, for example. It basically represents "metaphysical points" rather than "mana points". If something is not physical strength, then it's metaphysical. So MP still fits.

[Gemina]

My point was more coming from job identity, and lore. Guess that isnt something most care about anymore. I enjoy when classes have there own version of things. I mean some games even give each class there own resource all together. Maybe with 5.0 we will see more of that. Like all the gauges we have now.

I support such things as well, and welcomed the concept of job gauges in SB. Losing the TP gauge doesn't take away as far as this goes as it is a global resource for all jobs, even the ones who don't use it at all. But yes, perhaps with 5.0 there will be things they add to both identity and lore for all our jobs.

[Leadleaf]

Most likely to clean up gauges. Melees never needed to look at their mp. Casters and healers have tp become irrelevant since sprint's overhaul. I see it along the same sort of update as pruning all the elemental resistances from our character menus, except this is actually all up in your UI. Reserving further judgment until more information's out.

[Kurando]

It could be that current TP requiring jobs will still need resource to use such actions but it will be built in to their respective job gauges instead.

[Shurrikhan]

It hasn't really had a purpose except to explicitly cause imbalance since it was changed from the Stamina bar. At best, ARR Monk was the exception, as it had significantly more TP-costly and TP-inexpensive options, and Fracture was not yet mandatory for the majority of SkS breakpoints, nor removed as it was later.

Apart from the above Monk exception, its historical uses are few and purely punitive:

• To nerf access to Sprint for physical classes only.
• To nerf sustainable AoE for physical classes only.
• To reduce the general sustainability of physical class combat.
• To nerf Skill Speed.

Even if we were to give Sprint back a drain cost, making it more punishing but also more flexible, it'd still make no sense for it to apply solely to TP. A combined SP or Stamina Points or whatever would make far more sense as it'd affect jobs evenly.

The changes should be insignificant here. There are only three jobs that actually include resources in their gameplay beyond the common sense of their ability usage (healers) or obvious limiters (resurrection spells, be it on healers or SMN and RDM), PLD, DRK, and BLM.

BLM won't be changed whatsoever as it never had any TP interaction anyways.
PLD will at most see its MP recovery slowed during melee rotations or TE, less punished during Flash, and accelerated during true downtime.
DRK will at most see its MP recovery slowed during melee rotations and accelerated during true downtime, almost as if the old Darkside drain cost ticked per (physical) action rather than every 3 seconds.

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It got carried over because the original concept for the battle system was gonna be an extension of the revamped system they did at the end of 1.23. where you actually had to build TP in order to do ya powerful combos which would have made combat a lot more tactical and less button spammy. In a sense of do you do your combo when you get to 1000TP or keep building to 3,000TP for a bigger burst of your combos later kinda sense...

Perhaps with a fundamental revision of that system what you're describing could have happened, but 1.23 was as far from tactical as you could possibly get.

Outside of reactives like Haymaker, there were only two actual TP costs in 1.23, either 1000 or 1500, due to the way the combo system worked.

As a Yoshida-era 1.x class/job, you had two options:

• You opened with your 1500 TP skill, which then gave your 2500 and 3000-TP skill for free, then alternated to your 1000 skill that gave the 2000 and other 3000 skill for free, then back but with the 3000 skill still on cooldown, then back again but with your other 3000 skill on cooldown; repeat.
• You opened with your 1000 TP skill, which then gave the 2000 and other 3000 skill for free, then alternated to your 1500 skill that gave the 2500 and other 3000 skill for free, then back but with the 3000 skill still on cooldown, then back again but with your other 3000 skill on cooldown; repeat.

That was literally it.

If you delayed in using your opening combo, you'd risk losing uses over the fight for literally no benefit. If you held onto TP, you'd waste time that could have been spent cooling a mid-combo ability, which in turn potentially cost you bridge and finisher uses over a fight. The combo conditions lasted long enough that if, on immediate use, the bridge would fade before your finisher could refresh from its cooldown, another combo would get you there in time anyways.

Yoshida had already removed any skill-chain like bonuses afforded by Battle Regimen, so there were no damage bonus windows. You used your skill-buff skill on a particular ability and on very few jobs alternated which it'd be applied to if the added use within a fight afforded you more potency than waiting for the stronger skill.

There was no tactical complexity whatsoever outside of maybe Fists of Wind and Keen Flurry on Monk (both then a CD reduction, meaning they could shake up your combo alternations very slightly if stacked). For everyone else, you solely alternated between combo one and combo two for as many GCDs as each would last. Anything else cost you performance.

Were the actions weighty? Yes. Did the system have the capacity to allow for rotational complexity? No. Was it more thoughtful? No. It had and has never been more braindead. For most fights, even Tanaka's systems had more to them.

That's not to say I wouldn't like a system that would have the depth you're describing, but... 1.23 was the antithesis of that, not its shining example.

[KisaiTenshi]

Why is TP being removed? From a lore standpoint it makes sense, non magic classes use tactical points and magic classes use magic points. I still dont understand that we are still catering to people who get "confused" by having too many things to reference. Every class switching to just MP makes no sense. Why not make it a UI feature to switch the MP/TP bar depending on what class you are on, why is that so hard? I know some classes use both but thats an easy fix, all there skills will use either TP or MP.

Its just a minor complaint but I thought it was an odd choice to have it removed completely.

Because it's a useless variable that takes up 25% of the frequent status updates. TP should have disappeared with 1.x when we moved away from the turn-based combat that was more tactical than action.

[Burningskull]

What if when they remove TP, actions that take TP simply wont take anything any more? You'll just have the GCD to worry about. Then they can remove Goad and Invigorate. You might say well then why don't they just remove MP... to which the only answer I have is so healers cant heal indefinitely.