Mentors - What is expected really?

[Canadane]

Glorified queue filler.
Nothing more.

[Thamorian]

Glorified queue filler.
Nothing more.

Uh huh...yeaaaaahhhhh no. We 've already been over that. Are you looking to contribute to the discussion or you just looking to increase your post count again?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Uh huh...yeaaaaahhhhh no. We 've already been over that. Are you looking to contribute to the discussion or you just looking to increase your post count again?

He's not wrong. Mentor roulette literally exists to fill queues.

Also, your post added nothing to the discussion.

[Thamorian]

He's not wrong. Mentor roulette literally exists to fill queues.

Also, your post added nothing to the discussion.

You didn't read any other page in this post did you? We aren't talking about the Mentor roulettes, are are talking about the mentor system as a whole.

THIS IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! This is so far off the mark that you are in China when you should be in New York!

SE did not make savage raiding a requirement to be a mentor. SE made mentor system to help low level players learn the game at a basic level. Basic rotations, general questions, and stuff like character config and system config. Novice Network is filled with new players still progressing through the game starting at level 1. The "New Adventurer" status is applied to all players who have less than 168 hours of play time and have not completed the quest The Far Edge of Fate, not players at end game raiding. Just because you have some twisted idea of what a mentor is supposed to be does not make it true.


No they aren't. The average mentor have the same gameplay skill as the non-mentor. You just have such a biased preconceived notion that mentors should be great at the game that when you run into a bad one, you notice the crown and take notice of it more. I'm sure you ran into a bunch of mentors who played just fine but you didn't notice they had a mentor crown on or you don't remember them because they played their role adequately so there was no noteworthy reason to remember them.

Mentor Roulettes came much later than the mentor system so no, it's not a scheme to get queues moving. And being able to do savage raiding and being a good mentor does not have much much in common. You can have a really really nasty and rude person be good at raiding and a mentor who is not good at raiding but can help teach new players about the game.

Mentors don't choose to be mentors to impress you. And like I said, I'm sure you run into plenty of people who had mentor crowns on who you don't remember because they didn't do anything noteworthy to be remembered for. They did whatever role adequately they sign up for in the dungeon. Ran a dungeon and it went smoothly? In what way is a mentor supposed to shine bright in that regard? Someone being bad at end game has NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with being a mentor. The requirements to obtain mentor are pretty low and the only extra systems they gain is novice network, which is for new players, and a regular "casual" content roulette. Yes you can become a mentor by being a healer that only heals, a tank that stays in tank stance only doing enmity rotation and AoE, and a DPS who doesn't hit all their oGCDs. Or you can become a mentor by making collectables with crafting and gathering while only ever doing each dungeon a grand total of once to unlock them. Show me where it says mentors have to be great at end game?

As long as mentor has a good attitude, share what knowledge they have, and helps new players learn the basics of the game, they have fulfilled the requirements of what SE wanted mentors to be. You need to stop equating mentors with something they are were not designed to be.

Basics of the game being:
How do I get to Limsa?
Where do I get my first mount?
How do I join a FC?
How to I enable more hotbars?
What is a basic rotation for a class?
Where do I go to unlock a job?

If a mentor is also a great at savage raiding and knows a job really well, thats great but it is bonus knowledge.

Yeah, my posts haven't been adding anything to the discussion.

I don't post just for the sake of posting.
If you'd like to discuss it, I'm happy to oblige. A short blunt answer was all that was needed, I think. However I'm always happy to expand on anything.

In what way was the Mentor System designed to be a "glorified queue filler" when the mentor roulettes (which was not even mentioned about at all in the original post) came much later than the Mentor System itself and Novice Network?

[BillyKaplan]

You didn't read any other page in this post did you? We aren't talking about the Mentor roulettes, are are talking about the mentor system as a whole.

There are two things that the Mentor system brings to the table: the Mentor roulette, and the Novice Network. There's literally nothing else in the game that's affected by it other than a cosmetic change to your search info if you so wish. Between too many NNs being cesspits of toxin and decay, and they being a very limited chat channel to begin with whereas Mentors and Sprouts/Returners can't even get in, that leaves us with the Mentor roulette. In the patch the Mentor roulette was released, they said in the patch notes the roulette itself was specifically to help queues for those pesky duties that don't pop.
Everyone can be helpful with or without the crown. Everyone can be a piece of trash with or without the crown. "So long as a mentor has a good attitude"? Has nothing to do with them being a mentor. We're bodies to get the queues going.

Mentors don't choose to be mentors to impress you.

Uh, #NotAllMentors much? A lot of them do. I know a few people who cheated the DF system, powered through the achiev in two weeks, and only use the mount to shove it in people's faces.

And all the questions you brought up aren't things you need a mentor for. It's why the Novice Network amounts to "let me google that for you". Hell, you don't even need that, most of it is information that exists inside the game. It's also information people somehow managed to grasp before the Mentor system was introduced.

Remove the Mentor system tomorrow and the only thing that'll change would be -- oops, certain queues not popping. The Novice Network is now replaced with the Limsa shout chat.

[Thamorian]

There are two things that the Mentor system brings to the table: the Mentor roulette, and the Novice Network. There's literally nothing else in the game that's affected by it other than a cosmetic change to your search info if you so wish. Between too many NNs being cesspits of toxin and decay, and they being a very limited chat channel to begin with whereas Mentors and Sprouts/Returners can't even get in, that leaves us with the Mentor roulette. In the patch the Mentor roulette was released, they said in the patch notes the roulette itself was specifically to help queues for those pesky duties that don't pop.
Everyone can be helpful with or without the crown. Everyone can be a piece of trash with or without the crown.

I know Balmung has a bad reputation but if your NN is a cesspit, why don't you do something about it instead of whining about it and saying we should just trash it? It's a cesspit because your server chooses to let it be. Novice Network allows for around 100 mentors and 412 novices/reutrners. On larger servers yeah Mentor slots can fill up but I can't remember the last time novice/returner slots filled up. If it did, that would be an issue on only large servers.

"So long as a mentor has a good attitude"? Has nothing to do with them being a mentor. We're bodies to get the queues going.

Ok I guess we are just going to ignore SE's own popup thing. Again, I am going off what SE designed the mentor system to be, not what people want to twist into what they think it should be.

Uh, #NotAllMentors much? A lot of them do. I know a few people who cheated the DF system, powered through the achiev in two weeks, and only use the mount to shove it in people's faces.

#notallmentors? Really? Ok yeah there are some but everyone always wants to trash the mentor system because of some bad actors. If 2,000 people use the crown with mentor system and 100 people are misusing the system, yeah that could be considered a lot but thats nowhere near a majority, half, or even a quarter. I don't have the numbers but neither do you. Don't act like you know it's a majority of people thjat misuse the system. People want to trash the whole mentor system and crap all over anyone who uses the crown in the mentor system in good faith because of some.

Also, 2 weeks? It takes 2,000 mentor roulettes to get the mount. That's 142-143 roulettes a day if obtained in 2 weeks. They much of gotten really lucky with nothing but guildhests. Remember, 3 withdrawals and you get a 30 minute lockout and you won't know what dungeon you get before accepting.

But if you have a problem with people showing off a mount, then you better also have an issue with people showing off the Hunt Centurio mount and current savage raid mount. People also better put away those PvP mounts, can't have anyone showing off their achievements off lest you get annoyed they are showing it off! Everyone must use the basic desert yellow chocobo. Get over yourself.

[BillyKaplan]

Ok I guess we are just going to ignore SE's own popup thing. Again, I am going off what SE designed the mentor system to be, not what people want to twist into what they think it should be.

SE never demanded I had a teaching certificate to become a mentor.

People want to trash the whole mentor system and crap all over anyone who uses the crown in the mentor system in good faith because of some.

People can be helpful with or without the crown. I help my FC and linkshells aplenty without having the crown on, and I did so long before the system was released too. You don't need the system to actually mentor people. All the system did was lure in the people who only wanted the icon and later the mount

They much of gotten really lucky with nothing but guildhests.

You missed the part where I said they cheated. It's not that rare a phenomenon, unfortunately.

But if you have a problem with people showing off a mount, then you better also have an issue with people showing off the Hunt Centurio mount --

Ad Hominem and completely derailing away from what I said in one fell swoop. Impressive.
You said Mentors don't become Mentors just to impress other people. That's one example of many that do.

[Canadane]

In what way was the Mentor System designed to be a "glorified queue filler" when the mentor roulettes (which was not even mentioned about at all in the original post) came much later than the Mentor System itself and Novice Network?

This is two fold here.
One, it's not uncommon for features to arrive in a staggered way. I wouldn't believe for a second that after the mentor system was implemented it was only then some dev got the idea for a roulette. It was entirely planned.
Two, the novice network is there to help newer players. "Hey can I get help with x?" is essentially helping fill queues by getting players together and putting them through content. I don't know how it is on other servers, Hyperions started out pretty strict on staying on topic. Nowadays it's a bit more social. But the questions and answers are still there. The assistance is still there. People end up doing more content from the knowledge gained and help provided.

It's the same reason the Relic and Anima weapons involved doing content you've probably already done. SE tries very hard to get players to do content multiple times in order to help people through the queues as often as possible.

[Canadane]

Uh huh...yeaaaaahhhhh no. We 've already been over that. Are you looking to contribute to the discussion or you just looking to increase your post count again?

I don't post just for the sake of posting.
If you'd like to discuss it, I'm happy to oblige. A short blunt answer was all that was needed, I think. However I'm always happy to expand on anything.