Mentors - What is expected really?

[BillyKaplan]

You didn't read any other page in this post did you? We aren't talking about the Mentor roulettes, are are talking about the mentor system as a whole.

There are two things that the Mentor system brings to the table: the Mentor roulette, and the Novice Network. There's literally nothing else in the game that's affected by it other than a cosmetic change to your search info if you so wish. Between too many NNs being cesspits of toxin and decay, and they being a very limited chat channel to begin with whereas Mentors and Sprouts/Returners can't even get in, that leaves us with the Mentor roulette. In the patch the Mentor roulette was released, they said in the patch notes the roulette itself was specifically to help queues for those pesky duties that don't pop.
Everyone can be helpful with or without the crown. Everyone can be a piece of trash with or without the crown. "So long as a mentor has a good attitude"? Has nothing to do with them being a mentor. We're bodies to get the queues going.

Mentors don't choose to be mentors to impress you.

Uh, #NotAllMentors much? A lot of them do. I know a few people who cheated the DF system, powered through the achiev in two weeks, and only use the mount to shove it in people's faces.

And all the questions you brought up aren't things you need a mentor for. It's why the Novice Network amounts to "let me google that for you". Hell, you don't even need that, most of it is information that exists inside the game. It's also information people somehow managed to grasp before the Mentor system was introduced.

Remove the Mentor system tomorrow and the only thing that'll change would be -- oops, certain queues not popping. The Novice Network is now replaced with the Limsa shout chat.

[Thamorian]

There are two things that the Mentor system brings to the table: the Mentor roulette, and the Novice Network. There's literally nothing else in the game that's affected by it other than a cosmetic change to your search info if you so wish. Between too many NNs being cesspits of toxin and decay, and they being a very limited chat channel to begin with whereas Mentors and Sprouts/Returners can't even get in, that leaves us with the Mentor roulette. In the patch the Mentor roulette was released, they said in the patch notes the roulette itself was specifically to help queues for those pesky duties that don't pop.
Everyone can be helpful with or without the crown. Everyone can be a piece of trash with or without the crown.

I know Balmung has a bad reputation but if your NN is a cesspit, why don't you do something about it instead of whining about it and saying we should just trash it? It's a cesspit because your server chooses to let it be. Novice Network allows for around 100 mentors and 412 novices/reutrners. On larger servers yeah Mentor slots can fill up but I can't remember the last time novice/returner slots filled up. If it did, that would be an issue on only large servers.

"So long as a mentor has a good attitude"? Has nothing to do with them being a mentor. We're bodies to get the queues going.

Ok I guess we are just going to ignore SE's own popup thing. Again, I am going off what SE designed the mentor system to be, not what people want to twist into what they think it should be.

Uh, #NotAllMentors much? A lot of them do. I know a few people who cheated the DF system, powered through the achiev in two weeks, and only use the mount to shove it in people's faces.

#notallmentors? Really? Ok yeah there are some but everyone always wants to trash the mentor system because of some bad actors. If 2,000 people use the crown with mentor system and 100 people are misusing the system, yeah that could be considered a lot but thats nowhere near a majority, half, or even a quarter. I don't have the numbers but neither do you. Don't act like you know it's a majority of people thjat misuse the system. People want to trash the whole mentor system and crap all over anyone who uses the crown in the mentor system in good faith because of some.

Also, 2 weeks? It takes 2,000 mentor roulettes to get the mount. That's 142-143 roulettes a day if obtained in 2 weeks. They much of gotten really lucky with nothing but guildhests. Remember, 3 withdrawals and you get a 30 minute lockout and you won't know what dungeon you get before accepting.

But if you have a problem with people showing off a mount, then you better also have an issue with people showing off the Hunt Centurio mount and current savage raid mount. People also better put away those PvP mounts, can't have anyone showing off their achievements off lest you get annoyed they are showing it off! Everyone must use the basic desert yellow chocobo. Get over yourself.

[BillyKaplan]

Ok I guess we are just going to ignore SE's own popup thing. Again, I am going off what SE designed the mentor system to be, not what people want to twist into what they think it should be.

SE never demanded I had a teaching certificate to become a mentor.

People want to trash the whole mentor system and crap all over anyone who uses the crown in the mentor system in good faith because of some.

People can be helpful with or without the crown. I help my FC and linkshells aplenty without having the crown on, and I did so long before the system was released too. You don't need the system to actually mentor people. All the system did was lure in the people who only wanted the icon and later the mount

They much of gotten really lucky with nothing but guildhests.

You missed the part where I said they cheated. It's not that rare a phenomenon, unfortunately.

But if you have a problem with people showing off a mount, then you better also have an issue with people showing off the Hunt Centurio mount --

Ad Hominem and completely derailing away from what I said in one fell swoop. Impressive.
You said Mentors don't become Mentors just to impress other people. That's one example of many that do.

[Thamorian]

SE never demanded I had a teaching certificate to become a mentor.

That's not my argument. I am not arguing people should have a teaching license or certificate. I am arguing against people who think the mentor system is more than that it actually is. But there is something akin to a TOS to join the mentor system to access the novice network.

People can be helpful with or without the crown. I help my FC and linkshells aplenty without having the crown on, and I did so long before the system was released too. You don't need the system to actually mentor people.

Right, don't need to the crown to help people. Novice network is just a tool for new players to use to get assistance. Maybe the new player doesn't want to be in a FC and maybe they don't like the atmosphere of Limsa or they can't access Limsa yet (Starting at Ul'dah or Gridania). Maybe they joined the game by themself and not with friends. If they are new to the game, novice network gives them a place where they know they can ask a question if they decide to join. Not everyone has access the the same type of groups you have in game.

All the system did was lure in the people who only wanted the icon and later the mount

You're a mind reader now? You don't know why people joined the mentor system. Original poster doesn't seem like they are wanting to join mentor system from just to get a crown and mount based on the original post. Seems genuine to me they want to join to help people.

You missed the part where I said they cheated. It's not that rare a phenomenon, unfortunately.

Yeah I saw what you said. Cheated through the mentor roulette? Really? Do you have any sort of proof? A lodestone link or a mount/minion tracker page that shows a date they obtained the mount? In what way did they cheat to get the mount? Could you describe how they cheated for it? Cause if you have no proof, then theres no reason for me to believe you. You brought it up, the burden of proof is on you. Right now it just looks like you're greatly exaggerating. One of the first people on my server to get Astrope mount took months of doing nothing for mentor roulette every chance they got.

Ad Hominem and completely derailing away from what I said in one fell swoop. Impressive.
You said Mentors don't become Mentors just to impress other people. That's one example of many that do.

ad hominem: (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

I attacked your argument. Your argument was a mentor got the mount to shove it in others faces when they achieved it. You are saying they should not be showing that they got the Astrope mount. Did the person who got the mount remind you and everyone else every chance he got that he has the mentor mount? Or did they just go like "Yay! I got the mentor mount!" when he first got it then simply used it whenever they needed to mount up? Just because someone wants to share their joy at getting something does not mean they are doing it to impress you.

That's one example of many that do.

The exception does not define the rule.

[HyoMinPark]

Mentor Roulettes came much later than the mentor system so no, it's not a scheme to get queues moving. And being able to do savage raiding and being a good mentor does not have much much in common. You can have a really really nasty and rude person be good at raiding and a mentor who is not good at raiding but can help teach new players about the game.

No, the Mentor Roulette was added at the same time the Mentor System was added (Patch 3.2). Any content inside that Roulette you should be required to know. This doesn't include Coil, Savage, or Ultimates, but it does include everything else.

[Maero]

Anyone can be a mentor even with little experience, which i do not agree with.
As for comments about only those that run/have run or cleared Savage should be only ones qualified (not in the exact words) i also do not agree with.
I have seen so many bad players that have supposedly cleared savage, buying runs is a thing i guess still

[Thamorian]

No, the Mentor Roulette was added at the same time the Mentor System was added (Patch 3.2). Any content inside that Roulette you should be required to know. This doesn't include Coil, Savage, or Ultimates, but it does include everything else.

If it did, my mistake. I remember it coming out later for some reason. But regardless, all other points still stand.

[Thatusernameistaken]

I personally don't raid, and suck at crafting, so I'm more focused on mentoring the content like dungeons, extremes, etc. I stopped pointing at people's low gear, because they seem to not like to hear the truth and the reaction is pretty bad.

If I spot a leaf in the open world with bad gear, I actually friend request them, then craft them a full set of gear and a weapon appropriate for their level and mail it to them. I regularly advertise gear sets in the Novice Network and get quite a few requests. I even had some random person friend request me and ask if was the guy who made gear sets for novices, and that he had a friend who needed some gear.

[dotsforlife]

It's a status icon. Nothing more. Anything beyond that is pure projection.

[Canadane]

In what way was the Mentor System designed to be a "glorified queue filler" when the mentor roulettes (which was not even mentioned about at all in the original post) came much later than the Mentor System itself and Novice Network?

This is two fold here.
One, it's not uncommon for features to arrive in a staggered way. I wouldn't believe for a second that after the mentor system was implemented it was only then some dev got the idea for a roulette. It was entirely planned.
Two, the novice network is there to help newer players. "Hey can I get help with x?" is essentially helping fill queues by getting players together and putting them through content. I don't know how it is on other servers, Hyperions started out pretty strict on staying on topic. Nowadays it's a bit more social. But the questions and answers are still there. The assistance is still there. People end up doing more content from the knowledge gained and help provided.

It's the same reason the Relic and Anima weapons involved doing content you've probably already done. SE tries very hard to get players to do content multiple times in order to help people through the queues as often as possible.