Mentors - What is expected really?

[Thamorian]

Unless you are an experienced mmo player and regularly partakes in the high end content in every other mmo you played before this one, or you are the kind of player that actively do out of game research to learn things about the game and the jobs you play on, otherwise if you don't have minimum, in-depth savage raiding experience and a somewhat long raiding history (at least 3 raid tiers), you DO NOT have what it takes to be a good PvE mentor.

THIS IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! This is so far off the mark that you are in China when you should be in New York!

SE did not make savage raiding a requirement to be a mentor. SE made mentor system to help low level players learn the game at a basic level. Basic rotations, general questions, and stuff like character config and system config. Novice Network is filled with new players still progressing through the game starting at level 1. The "New Adventurer" status is applied to all players who have less than 168 hours of play time and have not completed the quest The Far Edge of Fate, not players at end game raiding. Just because you have some twisted idea of what a mentor is supposed to be does not make it true.

The mentor status is so easy to obtain that it actually means nothing. Actually...people with a mentor's crown are usually the worst players in the game.

No they aren't. The average mentor have the same gameplay skill as the non-mentor. You just have such a biased preconceived notion that mentors should be great at the game that when you run into a bad one, you notice the crown and take notice of it more. I'm sure you ran into a bunch of mentors who played just fine but you didn't notice they had a mentor crown on or you don't remember them because they played their role adequately so there was no noteworthy reason to remember them.

[BillyKaplan]

SE did not make savage raiding a requirement to be a mentor.

This is what it boils down to. Savage level content, including the Coils, is not in the Mentor roulette even two expansions after. That means Mentors aren't obligated to be know the game to such details, or even be such good players. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking the Mentor system is anything but a scheme to get queues moving.
And I mean, if someone made it into Savage and they don't have their rotation down, they don't need a Mentor, they need Jesus.

[Thamorian]

This is what it boils down to. Savage level content, including the Coils, is not in the Mentor roulette even two expansions after. That means Mentors aren't obligated to be know the game to such details, or even be such good players. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking the Mentor system is anything but a scheme to get queues moving.
And I mean, if someone made it into Savage and they don't have their rotation down, they don't need a Mentor, they need Jesus.

Mentor Roulettes came much later than the mentor system so no, it's not a scheme to get queues moving. And being able to do savage raiding and being a good mentor does not have much much in common. You can have a really really nasty and rude person be good at raiding and a mentor who is not good at raiding but can help teach new players about the game.

[HyoMinPark]

Mentor Roulettes came much later than the mentor system so no, it's not a scheme to get queues moving. And being able to do savage raiding and being a good mentor does not have much much in common. You can have a really really nasty and rude person be good at raiding and a mentor who is not good at raiding but can help teach new players about the game.

No, the Mentor Roulette was added at the same time the Mentor System was added (Patch 3.2). Any content inside that Roulette you should be required to know. This doesn't include Coil, Savage, or Ultimates, but it does include everything else.

[Thamorian]

No, the Mentor Roulette was added at the same time the Mentor System was added (Patch 3.2). Any content inside that Roulette you should be required to know. This doesn't include Coil, Savage, or Ultimates, but it does include everything else.

If it did, my mistake. I remember it coming out later for some reason. But regardless, all other points still stand.

[Lastelli]

No they aren't. The average mentor have the same gameplay skill as the non-mentor.

I have yet to meet a player that can impress me positively and is wearing the mentor crown. And I do use the PF quite a lot because...I'm a masochist, I guess.

In fact, most mentors I've met make me believe they don't even have any knowledge of what their job's rotation looks like.

[Thamorian]

I have yet to meet a player that can impress me positively and is wearing the mentor crown. And I do use the PF quite a lot because...I'm a masochist, I guess.

In fact, most mentors I've met make me believe they don't even have any knowledge of what their job's rotation looks like.

Mentors don't choose to be mentors to impress you. And like I said, I'm sure you run into plenty of people who had mentor crowns on who you don't remember because they didn't do anything noteworthy to be remembered for. They did whatever role adequately they sign up for in the dungeon. Ran a dungeon and it went smoothly? In what way is a mentor supposed to shine bright in that regard? Someone being bad at end game has NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with being a mentor. The requirements to obtain mentor are pretty low and the only extra systems they gain is novice network, which is for new players, and a regular "casual" content roulette. Yes you can become a mentor by being a healer that only heals, a tank that stays in tank stance only doing enmity rotation and AoE, and a DPS who doesn't hit all their oGCDs. Or you can become a mentor by making collectables with crafting and gathering while only ever doing each dungeon a grand total of once to unlock them. Show me where it says mentors have to be great at end game?

As long as mentor has a good attitude, share what knowledge they have, and helps new players learn the basics of the game, they have fulfilled the requirements of what SE wanted mentors to be. You need to stop equating mentors with something they are were not designed to be.

Basics of the game being:
How do I get to Limsa?
Where do I get my first mount?
How do I join a FC?
How to I enable more hotbars?
What is a basic rotation for a class?
Where do I go to unlock a job?

If a mentor is also a great at savage raiding and knows a job really well, thats great but it is bonus knowledge.

[LineageRazor]

Rule #1 of being a mentor is do whatever you want. It's just a symbol showing that you fulfilled some requirements and you likely at least have more than a rudimentary knowledge of the general game. You aren't expected to be anything more or less than that.

See Zojah's post above. The game spells out quite clearly what is expected of a Mentor. It is a box that EVERY Mentor had to check before becoming one, though very few live up to even those basic requirements.

Rule #2, pretend the Novice Network doesn't exist. It's hot garbage. Stay far the hell away from it regardless of what server you're on.

Surprised to hear a Greg native say that. I can't vouch for NN on other servers, but Gilgamesh's Novice Network is fine. There's a lot of extraneous chatter, true, but questions that are asked get answered and without belittling or bullying the Novices. Ultimately, that's what Novice Network is for. I've seen far more novices moan and wail about having to leave, than complain about being there.

In fact, most mentors I've met make me believe they don't even have any knowledge of what their job's rotation looks like.

And what if they don't? Mentors exist to help Novices with the basics of the game, and until you reach Extreme or Savage content, you can clear pretty much anything by mashing random buttons.

"How do I unlock a new class?" "Where can I get a Chocobo to ride?" "How do I toggle run/walk?" These are questions Mentors should be expected to field. Stuff pretty much everyone has done, no matter how casual a player they may be.

"What's the optimal DPS rotation for Machinist?" "Why is it a bad idea to macro NIN mudras?" "What are the best secondary stats for WAR?" These are advanced questions, and while many Mentors DO know the answers, there's no requirement to know them in order to become one, and so it's silly to expect it of them.

[Thamorian]

Surprised to hear a Greg native say that. I can't vouch for NN on other servers, but Gilgamesh's Novice Network is fine. There's a lot of extraneous chatter, true, but questions that are asked get answered and without belittling or bullying the Novices. Ultimately, that's what Novice Network is for. I've seen far more novices moan and wail about having to leave, than complain about being there.

As a fellow Greg player, can confirm. Our NN is fine. If someone has an issue with the chatter in NN, they are usually the type that just does not like seeing their chat log filled with a lot of random player chats. Novices are helped and questions are answered when they need it.

[Annah]

As a fellow Greg player, can confirm. Our NN is fine. If someone has an issue with the chatter in NN, they are usually the type that just does not like seeing their chat log filled with a lot of random player chats. Novices are helped and questions are answered when they need it.

I'm on Greg too....I have seen mentors kick other mentors out of novice chat over and over.

Gilgamesh Server has our own issues too