Feedback to the Game Devs, Dungeons need a revamp

[PretzJG]

Hello, I am hoping this gets read by a game dev and taken into consideration. First I am not looking to start a comment war on the "get good" topic that will most likely be thrown at me for this but rather want to just voice my concerns and ideas to the game devs and community. Now, Dungeons are currently viewed as boring content with little reason to be done besides GC Seals and Tomes. As such many want them done in 5 minutes or less and this means they want to pull everything and get straight to the boss in as little time as possible. Now yes I can understand wanting to get done and move onto the next quest you have or farming the next item you want, however the toxicity that is being bred in the community over this is really starting to show on the forums and in gameplay.

Thankfully I have found a nice FC and can run things with them and enjoy my gameplay, however there are always times when I'm the only one online and as such I have to queue for a random group. Getting into why this toxic idea that everything needs to be a massive pull of about 4-5 groups of 3-4 mobs each is cause of the fact that AOEs hit everything in their area and do a good deal of damage. I can see the logic behind that in the fact of having that many in the group of mobs being hit you are of course outputting more DPS. Still it's a bothersome way to go about things when instead of asking the tank to pull more the healer or dps will simply go pull it themselves. And of course you can't counter this in any way as Dungeon mobs just don't hit hard.

There needs to be an update of all Dungeons to make it where the mobs are more like Elite Mobs that have more HP and hit harder than those found out in the world. Now not saying every fight should be a boss battle, but having the danger sense that if the DPS goes and pulls something then he won't last but 2-3 hits before dying should deter people from being toxic about how big the pull is.

Now others say you need to pull big no matter what and I hate that, the game isn't just a trash mob fight and then boss, it's a series of pulls that lead up to the boss fight. Otherwise everything should just be Trials where you immediately are at a boss and go from there, the whiners want instant win, instant gratification, instant loot, instant stroking of the epeen, etc. Yet there are many who want to enjoy the challenge of the game and even just the normal flow of the game where each role has it's purpose, not a party where everyone is DPS and there's 1 person tossing out a heal every now and then, it just isn't fun that way. If you did that then there would be no need to have classes at all and just have everyone be given the healing spells and DPS skills/spells and let them just spam away with whatever they want to.

[DuskTS]

Everyone who plays optimally is a toxic whiner.

[FFgame]

Hello Lv 52 Thaumaturge. There are no side rooms to skip at higher level dungeons anymore, precisely because the devs listened to the community and removed "exploring" aspects of dungeons.

edit; Oh my god I read this wrong, you are actually not complaining about chest skipping but complaining about big pulls. As Black Mage.

[Zephera]

Big pulls are more engaging in my opinion, they force you to move and reposition much quicker. Pulling and fighting one enemy at a time would be very boring, especially if by difficulty you just mean buffing their damage and health.

[KDSilver]

What you define fun will not be the same as your neighbour and vice versa.
There's nothing toxic.
Dungeons are one of these "rare" content when we can perform an aoe rotation.
More experienced players don't see the point of small pull when they know they can easily handle a bigger one, that's not even a point of rushing.
Except if you play with the same players everytime that share the same point of view as yours, you'll have to adapt to the people you are with.

When I have a new tank on my party, discovering the dungeon for the first time, when I'm on my healer, I know I'll be bored.
But I don't whine, I adapt and I'm patient (and a lot of other do the same).
If you don't like it, you're still free to leave the party.

Besides, they can't increase their HP. Dungeon are more or less calculated to take around between 20-30min if everything is smooth (with small pulls). This is a also a place where people can learn their classes.
Standing still at the same place with no mecanic, with trash mob with higher HP, will not make pulls more engaging or fun (this is pretty much dummy fight, but with a light party). They even had so slightely reduce their amount to adapt to the new jobs adjustment/new coming players...

Anyway, you somehow have to learn to do both, and if you really don't, just play with people with the same pov as you... and if you can't... you have no right to force the other to think like you.
No adjustment needeed.

[PretzJG]

First let me say that you are a rarity in the fact that you don't whine about a tank pulling small, or rather pulling normally as intended instead of big group pulls, when they don't feel they can handle it themselves. The toxicity I'm speaking about is literally the last line you mention, "you have no right to force the other to think like you" cause that is what happens 9 times out of 10 in dungeons, you have a DPS or Healer who thinks everything should be big pulls even when the Tank or Healer aren't geared or skilled enough to handle it. Then of course it's the Tank or Healer's fault for the DPS dying after they go off and pull more mobs. So you say that a Tank has no right to force others to play at his pace yet the DPS has the right to do so cause they can AOE and it goes "faster" which is a relative assumption that the DPS can hit every target all the time with their AOE and do more damage without ripping agro off the tank.

I guess I just have the bad luck to find all the whiners but it is really something to state that someone doesn't have a right to do what others are doing to them. Also no where did I state that I wanted stand still fights with no mechanics, I said I wanted the mobs to hit hard enough for DPS to not try and tank, for there to be reason for the Tank to hold the agro and not let it get to everyone else.

[PretzJG]

I don't know but a few pulls in Dungeons that are only 1 target and those are when you pull a patrolling mob when he's far enough from other mobs, like the Bombs in Hatatali. Most pulls are 2-4 mobs, and the upping the damage is to make it so that DPS and Healers don't just run ahead and pull more and tank them themselves, something MMOs in the past have all done. It is group content meant to be done in a party with a Tank, Healer, and DPS, not just 4 guys who can DPS and maybe toss a heal every so often, SWTOR started doing that cause of queue times and it made the dungeon experience hell.

[DrWho2010]

You are only 52 - i assume you are a newer player to the game - when you have been at level cap and been playing for 3-4-5 years you will most definitely change your tune lol

[tdb]

Turning all dungeon mobs into elite mobs wouldn't help. The good players would still do mass pulls and some of them would expect everyone to do that. If you increase trash difficulty to the point where good players are forced to kill one group at a time, bad players will wipe to the first group.

In HW and SB dungeons have barriers which you can't pass until you've killed all the enemies up to that point. Typically there's two or three groups in each section. Given that you're level 52 you would only have seen the first such dungeon, but more will follow.

On my server it's common to pull only one or occasionally two groups at a time in the Lv 15-49 dungeons. Boss-to-boss pulls are a rare sight. I guess your server's community might be different.

[Kaiten_kenbu]

And that's why playing as tank is great.

You decide the pace the dungeon goes.

If DPS or heals want to go and pull mobs, I'll just let you die.

You spank it, you tank it.

And don't worry, I don't skip any mobs.