Feedback to the Game Devs, Dungeons need a revamp

[Driskus]

Getting into why this toxic idea that everything needs to be a massive pull of about 4-5 groups of 3-4 mobs each is cause of the fact that AOEs hit everything in their area and do a good deal of damage. I can see the logic behind that in the fact of having that many in the group of mobs being hit you are of course outputting more DPS. Still it's a bothersome way to go about things when instead of asking the tank to pull more the healer or dps will simply go pull it themselves. And of course you can't counter this in any way as Dungeon mobs just don't hit hard.

I find it pretty hard to understand why a BLM of all jobs would want small pulls over big ones. The job is practially made for handling large pulls easily. The same can pretty much be said for WAR & DRK on the tank side of things. As a WHM main, if I'm spending the entire fight without having to use a single heal (OGCD heals included), then there's really no reason for the tank to not pull more.

There needs to be an update of all Dungeons to make it where the mobs are more like Elite Mobs that have more HP and hit harder than those found out in the world. Now not saying every fight should be a boss battle, but having the danger sense that if the DPS goes and pulls something then he won't last but 2-3 hits before dying should deter people from being toxic about how big the pull is.

The only thing this would accomplish is making things harder on newer, less-skilled groups. If they made the mobs hard enough to where top-tier groups could only handle one pack at a time, less-skilled players wouldn't even be able to clear the dungeon. As for the mobs not hitting hard enough thing, your opinion on that will change really quick once you hit 57, and even more at 65-69. Some of those dungeons will hit DPS so hard that they're lucky if they survive one round of auto-attacks.

Now others say you need to pull big no matter what and I hate that, the game isn't just a trash mob fight and then boss, it's a series of pulls that lead up to the boss fight. Otherwise everything should just be Trials where you immediately are at a boss and go from there, the whiners want instant win, instant gratification, instant loot, instant stroking of the epeen, etc. Yet there are many who want to enjoy the challenge of the game and even just the normal flow of the game where each role has it's purpose, not a party where everyone is DPS and there's 1 person tossing out a heal every now and then, it just isn't fun that way. If you did that then there would be no need to have classes at all and just have everyone be given the healing spells and DPS skills/spells and let them just spam away with whatever they want to.

Unfortunately this game isn't designed to be difficult enough to where each role has to only do its primary role 100% of the time. Even if they did make things much harder, the more-skilled players would still be pulling big, because they know how to handle it.

Speedrunning Brayflox Hard back in the day was probably one of the most fun things I've done in the game, because it was one of few dungeons where pulling everything was actually a real challenge (and there were plenty of PFs specifically for it back then). When you hit the 60 & 70 dungeons you're going to get bored incredibly fast if you're only seeing single pack pulls. Even wall-to-wall pulls in those dungeons do virtually no damage to any decent tank.

In the end, if you really only want small pulls, you're better off using the party finder and mentioning it in the description. I can't say how successful you'll be at getting a party together in a decent amount of time, because the vast majority of players are going to want at least slightly bigger pulls if they know the group can handle it.

[Shurrikhan]

There needs to be an update of all Dungeons to make it where the mobs are more like Elite Mobs that have more HP and hit harder than those found out in the world. Now not saying every fight should be a boss battle, but having the danger sense that if the DPS goes and pulls something then he won't last but 2-3 hits before dying should deter people from being toxic about how big the pull is.

No one's being toxic about pull size for the sake of pull size. They're asking simply that you play well, or at least do not intentionally hamper others by pretending there's some monstrous force limiting you when there's not. Dungeons are for dungeoning, not RPing (unless you go specifically with people with that intent).

[Duskane]

Black mage arguably the best DPS for aoes complaining about large pulls...

[Duskane]

ive been playing since HW (just when esoteric tome died) i will agree Dungeons are extremely stale now
people complaining about getting one less dungeon a patch is pretty moot when they were basically the exact same slog they always have been

there definitely needs to be a way to spice up dungeon but when ever devs try something different people get upset and we go back to the same cycle we are always in

[Barraind]

Just wait for the trash pulls of bardams. You get hard hitting trash with high hp that you can't really super pull and everyone gets bored of because they don't have mechanics.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Are we done yet?

[Shurrikhan]

Just wait for the trash pulls of bardams. You get hard hitting trash with high hp that you can't really super pull and everyone gets bored of because they don't have mechanics.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Are we done yet?

You can still pull wall-to-wall, so long as everyone's appropriately geared and competent. It's just far from a Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz experience that way.

[RokkuEkkusu]

You can still pull wall-to-wall, so long as everyone's appropriately geared and competent. It's just far from a Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz experience that way.

I find most tanks, healers, and dps nowadays are no where near competent to handle big pulls in Bardam's or later Stormblood leveling dungeons anymore. Reasons vary from gear, not using aoes attacks, not avoiding aoes, lag, not pressing buttons, etc.

[RopeDrink]

I find most tanks, healers, and dps nowadays are no where near competent to handle big pulls in Bardam's or later

That is because Bardem is one of the very few damage-spikes in the dungeon list. That place has always stung, so if the tank is stingy with CD's and not very nimble on their feet for AoEs, then yes, a good Healer might have less fun, but a Healer levelling up and in basic low-end SB gear or Prospectors set is in for a rough ride. It was like that back when I went there for the very first time when expansion was initially released (WHM), and was no different after just levelling an AST from 50 to 70 as of a few days ago -- and I'm the type of person who likes to at least gear up my left-side with appropriate HQ-crafted gear if I didn't acquire enough pieces from the previous dungeon to fill the void. 90% of tanks I encountered during my Bardem+ spam were ping-pong's no matter how good or bad they were... And there were some exceptionally bad ones.

[RopeDrink]

As for the rest of the topic, rather than rant, all I'll say is that the OP contains a lot of "speaking for everyone" in terms of who enjoys dungeons, 'the elitist crowd', why they speed-run etc, yet it all comes from a position where said person seemingly hasn't done dungeons as much as those they are complaining about. I'm sorry, but the whole 'slow and scenic jaunt through a dungeon' trope only applies the first few times. When you get to the point where you've done practically all dungeons, enough to know the majority like the back of your hand, especially when dealing with a playerbase that has mostly overgeared the static-sync and has done it just as much - I'd be curious to see you defending the notion of going pack per pack to enjoy the 'normal pace' when the majority is capable and willing of going faster.

If that doesn't suit you, you can always mention it at the entrance, or continue playing with like-minded friends you meet along the way. It is NOT a fault of a system that players over-gear / over-experience content that is on an infinite loop. If your answer is to 'make mobs hit like elites', then you are advocating for a stricter over-gear bar that people WILL still reach and WILL still speed-run through, except you make the actual content/rewards harder and less appealing for those who actually do need to do that content or aren't at that higher bar due to the ratio between levelling/inexperienced players vs experienced/geared veterans doing roulette's.

[PretzJG]

Let me ask you all this question, WHY are you BORED in a Dungeon? Cause mobs hit "like wet noodles" as one person put it, and they don't have to heal as much. As for everyone pointing out the Main Class I show here.....yeah smart, I have a 52 BLM on one server, a 50 WHM as well, and a few other characters on other servers of varying levels. No I haven't gotten to HW and SB content on them but let me say this again, the issue is that anything seen as below lvl cap savage or extreme is seen as totally boring and not worth doing to many players I run into. It is just another jaunt through the dungeon and they want it over as fast as they can. I can get that, what I don't get is why it has to be so bad that DPS and Healers are going off and pulling, instead of asking the Tank to pull more or doing what they can to burn down the mobs they have pulled faster. What I'm suggesting is make the dungeons CHALLENGING again, make it where if you pull too much or if the DPS or Healers run ahead and pull more groups then it could result in a wipe, causing you to waste time instead of going FASTER. Make it so that Roles actually MEAN SOMETHING instead of just at the boss fights and that the healer is the only one with a healing spell.

Sure as a BLM I can spam Fire 2 and Thunder 2 all day long and burn down a group of 5-10 mobs quickly if the tank can hold the agro. But that is the same boring setup as saying you are bored having to use Fire 1 and Thunder 1 to burst down single targets. I want the dungeon to feel like content you actually need a group for, not something you could solo as a healer as long as your MP never ran out, or duo as a Tank and Healer or DPS and Healer. Give the mobs a feel of danger, and why not add in where they can drop treasure chests that have some good items in them, something to make it feel less like a slog and more of an epic quest.