Trying to understand the negative posts I keep seeing about the Dev Team

[azura84]

I think HyoMin nailed down a lot of things, but what frustrates people is that everyone knows this game could be so much more if they just thought things through better. That and their consistent battle to try and make two separate games in one, PVP and PVE.

Their few attempts to try something new with PVE have almost all been catastrophic failures, first with Daidem, then the boring Palace of the Dead, Aquapolis, Lost Canals, Eureka, and Heavens on High all have relatable functionality to what the developers did in XI. This is where I myself become most frustrated because it seems like this team lead by yoshi-p is going out of their way to not look at what XI did right.

1.) Daidem/Eureka are basically something akin to what Abyssea/Dynamis were but they failed because two major reasons: they didn't even attempt a branching and continuing quest tree for equipment which they could have done but they just chose not to and secondly they didn't make any more zones at all for it, they simply abandoned it to gatherers and free company leaders to feed on.

2.)PalaceOTD/HeavenOH- these are the weakest most boring versions of Nyzul/Salvage they could have ever done, zero attempt at alternate objectives or problem solving, just smash smash smash.

3.)Hunts/FATEs- these would be more enjoyable if they provided any kind of difficulty or reward, hunts do slightly but "epic" fates providing only aesthetic rewards have made their beautiful open world a wasteland of disappointment.

The only thing they've done in the past year that I thought was an improvement upon gameplay was Treasure Maps + Aqua/Canals, these actually push players to play with their fellow members in their FC's and LS's instead of relying upon a matchmaking system. Sadly though even this falls by the wayside for most because they don't offer any sort of tangible gear for playing with, just more aesthetic equipment and housing items.

As for the balance issue, I think the biggest problem is that the game has devolved so much that there is no utility and nothing else beyond a single number, damage. Stripping away the diversity of elemental and physical weaknesses that mobs have and providing little use for any need of enmity control, this game has become about damage and that makes people upset when you make it all about 1 number and "my job doesn't do as much as his". Personally I don't care about this balance problem because I know for a fact they make everything (even the savage/extreme content) easy enough for a good group of monks to destroy. (Try playing Thief for 10 years, then we'll talk) They may not do it as fast as a group of BLMs or SMNs but what does that matter if you're able to complete it just with 2-5mins more fighting in and playing what you enjoy. It would be another thing entirely if it was impossible to play with those jobs though, but that isn't the case.

The issue most of us from XI have with XIV is that this is such a better game by design, it's so much prettier cleaner and more flushed out mechanically, but the devs are making it weaker and weaker every year by not seeing any changes through, by playing it safe so as not to invoke a second Dalamud. What the devs don't seem to realize is there just isn't that much competition right now in the MMO arena and when something comes out that does challenge them, they're going to be hurting for that acclaimed 10 million sub crown. I dont want that to happen, I like XIV and I want it to do better! =(

[micropanther7]

Am I the only one who thinks it's the person holding the purse strings who says yay or nay on regarding changes, and not the developers? Sometimes I think the finger of blame is pointed in the wrong direction, is it really the developers that have control/final say on what gets put into the game?

[Lastelli]

Am I the only one who thinks it's the person holding the purse strings who says yay or nay on regarding changes, and not the developers? Sometimes I think the finger of blame is pointed in the wrong direction, is it really the developers that have control/final say on what gets put into the game?

I too think a good chunk of the responsability lies with SE top management. But even if they're not giving ffxiv team enough resources, I still can't close an eye to how the devs are using what little money they get. Diadem? Perform? Eureka? LoV and the neverending endeavor to make PvP relevant? Meanwhile, the core elements of the game keep getting less and less attention.
Do they really think their game is ok and they can afford to waste time and money on side content like this? And do they really think the side content they're offering is good enough?

[micropanther7]

I too think a good chunk of the responsability lies with SE top management. But even if they're not giving ffxiv team enough resources, I still can't close an eye to how the devs are using what little money they get. Diadem? Perform? Eureka? LoV and the neverending endeavor to make PvP relevant? Meanwhile, the core elements of the game keep getting less and less attention.

Oh I know, I was just thinking out loud, meaning that the devs shouldn't get all the flack I definitely think people got cause for complaint, even if I don't do some of the content myself (like pvp for example, and no not even a hairstyle is going to get me in there SE), I agree that core elements need more love.

[azura84]

I too think a good chunk of the responsibility lies with SE top management. But even if they're not giving ffxiv team enough resources, I still can't close an eye to how the devs are using what little money they get. Diadem? Perform? Eureka? LoV and the never ending endeavor to make PvP relevant? Meanwhile, the core elements of the game keep getting less and less attention.
Do they really think their game is ok and they can afford to waste time and money on side content like this? And do they really think the side content they're offering is good enough?

I honestly think it's both the devs and management.

[alimdia]

Am I the only one who thinks it's the person holding the purse strings who says yay or nay on regarding changes, and not the developers? Sometimes I think the finger of blame is pointed in the wrong direction, is it really the developers that have control/final say on what gets put into the game?

Speaking in general, in many games you have one company in charge of the publishing side (this includes hosting the game, the GMs, support, localization, marketing, etc) with a producer at the head, and the developing side (this includes creating the actual content, art, music, assets, bosses, maps, quests, lore, etc) with a director of development at the head.

FFXIV being a self published game means all of that is handled by a single company, but there's something special with FFXIV where the head of development and the head of publishing is the same person, producer and director Naoki Yoshida, so as far as content direction goes he's the person pulling the strings and everything has to go through his approval. If you watch interviews of other FFXIV team members or that one noclip documentary they mention how much of the decision making goes through Yoshida, and if he requests something the team tries to make it happen, even if it means changing the planned story. For example I remember reading it was Yoshida that requested this expansion to also focus on the far east when the original plan was Gyr Abania.

Now on the money topic, FFXIV is still subject to a budget from the parent company (Square Enix) which means Yoshida himself cannot control how much of the money that goes from FFXIV into SE comes back to FFXIV, he can only make requests. And the marketing I mentioned on the publishing side usually also works with management from the company and doesn't answer just to Yoshida, so the producer doesn't exactly have full control on how the money is spent, but he can make requests, those requests likely take into account things like return of investment and other areas of the game that also need to make use of the budget. Just speaking here how it usually works in other companies, I don't know if that's exactly how it works here.

Ultimately with a job title comes some responsibilities and accountability, which is why high staff positions are paid so much. You're accountable for anything people under you do or don't do even if it's not your fault, and this is the case of someone with the producer or the director of a project. Securing funds for infrastructure is the job of the producer. The fiasco that was Pagos is overseen by the director.

On the infrastructure we don't know if the producer has been trying and management is just not approving funds for that, or that the producer doesn't recognize it as a problem and isn't focusing on it. We're left in the blind here. But on development I don't think management has anything to do with how poorly received has been the latest content.

[azura84]

Ultimately with a job title comes some responsibilities and accountability, which is why high staff members are paid so much. You're accountable for anything people under you do or don't do even if it's not your fault, and this is the case of someone with the producer or the director of a project. Securing funds for infrastructure is the job of the producer..

and why Tanaka was asked to step down after 1.0

[MetalSnakeXI1]

Yeah, it’s probably a bit easier to understand if you had been playing probably a little bit longer. I don’t think that makes your opinion less valid, but I think it would make it easier for you to sympathize where some of the content criticisms are coming from simply from experience.

I started in Nov 2015, so I’m not an ARR veteran or 1.0 veteran, but I have friends who have played since 1.0 or ARR Beta and some of them are in the same boat as I am. One last night said that he doesn’t even know if he’ll be around in 5.0, and he’s our static’s MCH. Our SCH said that he, too, doesn’t know if he’ll continue on in 5.0. The stagnation that the game is feeling right now is having a negative effect on the playerbase, and I hope that the developers can rectify it. Sometimes I feel like they are more concerned with bringing in new money instead of retaining their veterans.

I’m not a game designer, so I’m not saying that things I would want are the things necessary to improve the game for those who feel disenchanted. And some, you may not be able to change their disenchantment. But I think that something does have to change; if 5.0 is a carbon copy of the previous expansions, I don’t know if I’ll make it through. And I would rather not lose the sole game I play, because FFXIV is the only MMO I have ever played, and the only video game I have played for extended periods of time—I’ve never been much of a gamer, and it surprised me that FFXIV hooked me the way it did.

So, hopefully something changes. And hopefully for the better.


Sidenote: I wasn’t saying that you specifically would disregard my opinion because I’m a raider; I apologize if it came off that way. But it seems to be the “cool thing to do” to disregard the opinion of a poster simply because they raid. Because “lul raiders” or...whatever.

Don't worry I understand(at least a little bit enough),cuz I felt a similar stagnation when I used to play something like Overwatch(not an MMO but the drought and stagnation for that game pushed me away)


At least your complaints come from a place of geniune love and concern for the game unlike some of the over the top toxicity that can be found in a lot of game communities on reddit.

XIV is the only other game beside Smash Bros that I put over 500+ hours into and it's one of the few games that made me so addicted to it that sometimes I play 10 hour sessions during my off days.So I hope for both our sake and every XIV players out there that things would improve by the time 5.0 rolls around

[Shurrikhan]

and why Tanaka was asked to step down after 1.0

I mean, it's hard to say that Tanaka was asked to resign for not securing sufficient funds, or reasonably imply that Yoshida replaced him for being more demanding, when Tanaka was replaced after repeatedly taking up issues of staff size, funding, and the forced rushed release, with Yoshida then entering with no such immediate deadlines, greatly increased funding, and an enlarged staff....

Tanaka failed; sure. But, it wasn't any accomplishment of Yoshida's to have overcome those hurdles as a producer should; they were concessions finally made with his installment.

If you watch noclip's documentary it's very clear there were major flaws in the way Tanaka was handling the team, even if they don't name him. Every team was doing their own thing with very little interaction with each other, and the team only had experience with FFXI, no one seemed interested in actually researching what's the MMO market like for modern MMOs. It was a recipe for failure even if the endless bugs weren't there.

While the original devs were busy spamming for a party to grind in XI WoW had already reshaped the genre and changed what people expect from a MMO.

Again, I'm not saying Tanaka didn't fail to meet the requirements of a project leader, let alone a producer. It was bad. But when a company is finally forced to admit its failings, known and complained of for a year prior, and finally induces the necessary funds, the producer they attach to that injection shouldn't be credited for that injection itself as if s/he'd somehow won the company over to the idea of really funding the game. Company reputation itself pushed that difference -- to the point they could no longer stonewall complaints. And at that point what mattered most at that exact moment about the producer was only that they were not Tanaka.

Perhaps -- even likely -- another producer would have secured funding sooner. Certainly there are other producers who could have made better use of their team, even as limited as it was. But the one person who cannot be credited one way or the other for securing funds is whoever arrived only after or precisely with those funds.

Let's give credit only where it's due, not for changes for which the credited was not in any control.

[alimdia]

I mean, it's hard to say that Tanaka was asked to resign for not securing sufficient funds, or reasonably imply that Yoshida replaced him for being more demanding, when Tanaka was replaced after repeatedly taking up issues of staff size, funding, and the forced rushed release, with Yoshida then entering with no such immediate deadlines, greatly increased funding, and an enlarged staff....

Tanaka failed; sure. But, it wasn't any accomplishment of Yoshida's to have overcome those hurdles as a producer should; they were concessions finally made with his installment.

If you watch noclip's documentary it's very clear there were major flaws in the way Tanaka was handling the team, even if they don't name him. Every team was doing their own thing with very little interaction with each other, and the team only had experience with FFXI, no one seemed interested in actually researching what's the MMO market like for modern MMOs. It was a recipe for failure even if the endless bugs weren't there.

While the original devs were busy spamming for a party to grind in XI WoW had already reshaped the genre and changed what people expect from a MMO.