Trying to understand the negative posts I keep seeing about the Dev Team

[SerLuke]

I realize FFXIV is not a perfect game/MMORPG... but I think its a pretty darn fun one. I'm not a super savage hardcore harder, I'm probably towards casual/light mid-core spectrum of things so my opinion might not mater much here, but I think the devs do a pretty good job. I appreciate the story and lore of FFXIV, I love going into a fun environment where I can jump into dungeons with my friends and chat and play for a while without hours of waiting around(I played FFXI back in the day) and I love the wonderful music Soken and Uematsu have composed for the game.

But going from a lot of posts I read it seems like the developers aren't looked very highly upon because the game sometimes has issues(like the recent DDOS attacks), people not liking Eureka, etc, but for me it seems the dev team has done way more good than bad though the posts I read seem to portray them as incompetent and people that should be replaced which doesn't seem right to me, can someone help me understand this?

[HyoMinPark]

A lot of complaints that seem to be common amongst the complaints is that the developers seem to go between not listening to any feedback at all, to just listening to whomever whines the loudest.

With Stormblood, there have been numerous complaints about the balance of some jobs compared to others within their competitive roles (DRK versus PLD/WAR, WHM versus SCH/AST, BRD versus MCH, RDM/BLM versus SMN, MNK/SAM versus NIN/DRG), and it has taken months for the developers to acknowledge some of the problems—and even longer still to do anything about them (see: RDM finally being buffed in 4.4 despite being weaker than BRD since launch; BLM and SAM finally being allowed to be a “selfish DPS” and deal high amounts of personal damage; MNK is actually giving NIN a run for their money now in 4.4, though some groups still prefer TA over MNK’s personal damage+Brotherhood, and no job can uproot DRG so long as there’s even a single physical ranged in the party; DRK taking until Patch 4.3 to get acknowledgment that it had problems; MCH still not being noticed; WHM still not being noticed).

This is in addition to them making dumb comments such as “We cannot give BRD/MCH piercing because then they will be too OP, since we do not balance them around having piercing”, but they seem to have zero issue with BRD/MCH being OP with a DRG in the party (and piercing as a whole has been a problem since Creator—them not balancing BRD/MCH with piercing/DRG synergy is exactly why they’ve been so strong).

Obviously, major job changes will not happen at this point in the expansion, but the complaints about some jobs (DRK, MCH, WHM and their Lily “mechanic”) have been present since Stormblood launch, and some still have never been addressed. Not even with a cursory remark.


With regards to content, people gave suggestions on how to improve Eureka (e.g., adding in a Daily Quests sort of thing for Elemental EXP or crystals; adding in crafting/gathering to Eureka; giving variety to the way you can earn your relics), and, instead, the developers buckle down harder on the most hated aspects of it (mob grinding and RNG), making it seem like they haven’t been listening to feedback at all. Pagos was a blight on the content itself, and it will be difficult for Pyros to redeem Eureka in the eyes of some players simply because of the dumpster fire Pagos was. Honestly, I feel like Pyros is going to be more damage control than much else in terms of Eureka, and I’m not sure how well said damage control will turn out to be. Personally, I don’t plan to complete Eureka or the relics this expansion, because I don’t want to deal with Pagos.

There is also the complaint about the content formula being the same since ARR and how boring/stale that has become, in addition to the ever-present “This content is too faceroll”/“Pls nerf this it’s too hard” bickerments—which stem from the extreme lack of any decent difficulty curve in this game from MSQ to dungeons to 8-mans/24-mans to Extremes/Savage. The only deviation the developers have done from the formula this expansion has been Ultimate. And, as much as I love the content (and I do still think there should be at least 2 per each expansion for the hardcore players), it’s still content for the 1%. There is no innovative content for the majority. Eureka was supposed to be that, but it’s more akin to Diadem than anything else. It takes all the aspects people hated from old-school MMOs and tries to implement them into an MMO that just doesn’t work with old-school design (by this, I mean FFXIV is too fast-paced to make mob chaining a la FFXI fun or enjoyable—instead it’s carpal tunnel-inducing).

The two biggest features of Stormblood—Eureka and Shirogane housing—were both flops on release. And while Anemos was far better received than Pagos, there were still plenty that didn’t like the shift of the relic to it. And Shirogane’s release was just a complete dumpster fire. The addition of new wards was nice, but it was still a band-aid fix to the housing problem in this game.


With regards to the DDoS, that’s just people looking for someone to blame, and not understanding how DDoS attacks actually work and what they specifically target. NA doesn’t have much room to complain about a significant loss of game time due to it—I think we’ve lost maybe a couple hours maximum since the attacks started. EU may have a bigger argument, and I wonder if, for them, it’s entirely DDoS and not infrastructure problems with their specific data center. But it’s difficult to say.

For DDoS attacks specifically, if the attacks are not specifically targeting SE’s servers or infrastructure, but another ISP outside of their jurisdiction (like an Internet backbone), all SE can do is try to put pressure on that ISP to fix the issues. And, even then, DDoS are hard to protect against given how they originate from random IPs and not always the same IP. But they cannot do more, and they are not responsible for offering compensation (i.e., free game time) for another ISP being under fire.



But some of the complaints that I have seen here and on Reddit have different degrees of merit, such as the job balancing and the trash heap that Eureka is. When you feel like your feedback isn’t being heard or is being blatantly ignored, I think people have a right to be frustrated about it.

[MetalSnakeXI1]

While I don't have as many complaints.....there are things the devs do need to listen to especially in regards to Eureka which I've been avoiding like the plague(heck I barely even bothered with Anemos).

In regards to changes...it seems they won't happen until the next expansion...at least for major ones but some balancing still can be done if they listened by the time 4.5 rolls around

As for the pacing in which content is released in.....it could be better.

I'm not asking for new content to be released every day cuz that's a bit too much,just a bit of reduction to the gaps between each patch

I dunno how much restriction Square Enix is imposing on the XIV team at the moment,but they can and need to do better especially since XIV is currently Square's most profitable and critically acclaimed game(well the relaunch not 1.0 obviously) in a decade so they've got to at least give it a bit more push

[Deceptus]

HyoMin pretty much said most of it but I what I think is the developers have gotten lazy and content in what they know works. This is because the times they have tried to innovate, it hasn't been well received. But that's not on the player base. The developers don't DESERVE our appreciation, they should STRIVE to obtain it.

And they have largely failed in that regard since ARR.

They've released lackluster content. We got less content due to Diadam, and Diadem was underwhelming. We've got less content due to Eureka, and Eureka is underwhelming.

Their servers and their netcode are pretty bad.

They don't learn from their previous mistakes. Eureka is literally the 3rd iteration of Diadem. They put multiple early SB MSQ's and Job Quests inside the instanced servers at the begining of the expansion, despite doing this in HW and it doing the exact same thing. And then they wonder why the game is on fire when no one can get past Rauhban or Pipin.

They've clearly went away from the Mantra of "Putting fun first" and "Not relying on patches later to fix content". They have literally gone away from the things they "Learned" from the 1.0 failure.

[Shurrikhan]

HyoMin pretty much said most of it but I what I think is the developers have gotten lazy and content in what they know works. This is because the times they have tried to innovate, it hasn't been well received.

Is this really the case, though? It's plain enough when something isn't well received by the majority of players, but, most of those widely criticized contents have not been particularly innovative. Diadem 1.0 fit squarely on the back of hunts, and carried little gameplay difference from N. Thanalan zerg parties. Diadem 2.0 merely further embraced its likeness to FATE grinds, innovating only in its Emergency Missions. Eureka doubled down almost only on components already complained of in Diadem; as those same mechanics were already tried and criticized in Diadem, they cannot suddenly be considered unique or innovative. Pagos then doubled down on the complaints of Eureka. Palace of the Dead was bare-bone. Heavens-on-High was mostly a palette-swapped Palace of the Dead. Aquapolis and Canals likewise provide more or less just more of the same.

Honestly, Lord of Vermillion and perhaps Raven Wings (though still following the same PvE > PvP even in PvP content principle as the most recent, and widely complained of, Frontlines maps) are the only content pieces that we've any evidence of them giving up on due to failure, rather than proceeding exactly without change.

[Stormfur]

Dev Team Backlash

I feel like the dev team gets a lot of (understandable) backlash from players who feel like their favorite class is being ignored. One of the biggest selling points of this game is that "you can be whatever class you want to be on one character" - yet if you're prohibited from joining parties because you're a DRK or a MCH or whatever -- that responsibility lies solely with the dev team to properly balance that class so that it has an equal chance to enjoy the content they've created. If I could tell them anything, it would be to stop stressing out so much about every class having its own gimmick. Yes, they should play differently, but just because one class has a gauge, doesn't mean they all need one, for example.

And I get it, balancing is hard. And we're going to get even MORE jobs come 5.0, which means MORE balancing, not to mention new skills or traits for everyone to learn as they level up. It's like they're on their very own treadmill, except it's not about gearing up, but differentiating classes while keeping them balanced. Maybe it's more like a hamster wheel than a treadmill!

You Ungrateful Lot!

I'd imagine if the dev team could read the NA forums, they'd probably think we're a very demanding and ungrateful lot. We really aren't, of course...it's just that we love Final Fantasy as much as they do, and we don't want to see it go the route of so many failed MMOs out there. Plus, we put a lot into this game -- both time and money -- and as such, we'd like to think that we have some say in the direction the game goes.

A game which doesn't take the feedback of its players into consideration will simply wither on the vine. Case in point: the latest WoW expansion. After alllll that feedback, they still doggedly insisted "we know better than you", and did it their way anyway. I think there's no better way to demonstrate how little the players mean to them than to spit in the face of feedback like that.

(Continued on next post)

[MetalSnakeXI1]

I'm pretty much with @Stormfur, @Vidu and a little bit of what @Hyomin said on this one(can't quote due to character limit)

Yes there are a lot of valid complaints,but as I've learned through my interactions with other fanbases like say....Smash Bros(It's not an MMO but it's an example more fitting to what I wanna say)There are just as many inconstructive complaint as there are constructive criticism

The Eureka complaints I absolutely agree with.........but the alleged "lack of content" is a bit absurd(see competitive Smash players for example for such complaint)

Sure the pace of releasing content slowed down....but that's an eventuality for a game running for 6 years now(8 if you count 1.0) to slow down updates until a big patch or an expansion come by.Raiding isn't the end all be all "hardcore content" to enjoy and while not every quest in the game is a winner there is still so much to do and play through.

I'll criticize Square for their mistakes till the cows come home(and I've been doing so before I even started XIV this year)....but I wouldn't go as far as saying the XIV team is lazy

I'm gonna put the blame on the higher ups and management of Square as they seem to either not give the XIV team enough resources and staff.....or pull away resources from the game to keep other mediocre titles supported like FF15 and some of the mobile games(15 in particular has been pretty bad about this both before and after the end of its development)

I hope they start addressing the complaints asap cuz.....14(beside Octopath Traveler) is the only Square Enix game that I enjoyed since .....2008 probably as it's the only thing from this company I'm willing to support and I don't want them to ruin it

[HyoMinPark]

but the alleged "lack of content" is a bit absurd(see competitive Smash players for example for such complaint)

Sure the pace of releasing content slowed down....but that's an eventuality for a game running for 6 years now(8 if you count 1.0) to slow down updates until a big patch or an expansion come by.Raiding isn't the end all be all "hardcore content" to enjoy and while not every quest in the game is a winner there is still so much to do and play through.

To give you my personal perspective of why I think there’s a “lack of content”, I think there’s a lack simply because there’s nothing new or innovative being introduced, there’s nothing being introduced that lasts in terms of lifetime of the content relative to new patch releases, and there’s no reason to go back and do older content short of nostalgia or vanity farming.

Eureka was supposed to be the “new and innovative” content for 4.0, but it’s just a reskinned Diadem (which flopped, not once, but twice in Heavenward) that attempts to emulate older MMO grinds, but it missed the mark by a mile by taking the things people disliked from old-school MMO grinds and forcing them into a game that just isn’t designed for it. And the Relic, of all things, is tied to it—which is something that is supposed to keep the casual playerbase occupied in the same way Savage (and Ultimate) is supposed to occupy the raiders (and even raiders participate in the Relics). If the Relic wasn’t in Eureka, people wouldn’t touch it. And I think the developers know this.

And it doesn’t stop at Eureka—HoH was a reskinned PotD; “expert” dungeons are repetitive and faceroll; 8-mans are glorified trial fights as opposed to actual raids; 24-mans are fun, but they’re every other patch, and short of getting one in Alliance Raid Roulette, there’s not much reason to go back to them other than nostalgia because they’re no longer relevant. There’s not much reason to go back and do any of the older content aside from nostalgia, or maybe glamour or mounts for some. Previous relics used to keep older content relevant by tying steps to participation, but that’s not the case now that the Relic is stuck in Eureka.

The content formula itself is predictable enough I could sit down and map out how the rest of the expansion is going to go in terms of content we’ll get. If the formula doesn’t change, I could do the same for the entirety of 5.0. And the content we’re receiving just doesn’t last the fifteen weeks between patches when more “major content” is supposed to be released.

I’m not saying the developers need to throw surprise curve-balls every patch, but they need to think of adding things people can look forward to each major patch, things that will last longer than a couple of weeks, and things that aren’t reskins and that mold well with FFXIV. And I mean this for the majority of the playerbase, because right now the only content I’ve personally found that has lasted long enough between patches is Ultimate. And that’s just for the 1% (and raiders better than me had it cleared in a couple weeks, farmed it weekly, and some did optimization runs of it because what else do you do at that point?).


The repetition of formula, combined with the way SE would rather stagger-release content to keep people subscribed and the way they’ve made running older content not at all worthwhile, has caused the game to grow incredibly stale, especially for players who have been playing for a really long time. Sidequests aren’t really a remedy for that, in my opinion—especially for those who have already completed all of the sidequests. It’s not content that lasts—it’s one and done—and I think that’s the main complaint a lot of people have. Content is just stretched too thin, and it doesn’t last long enough between patches. And there’s nothing new being introduced, just reskins that tend to be more disappointing than their original incarnation (HoH and PotD) or flop just as hard (Eureka and Diadem).


I’m sure my opinion will probably be dismissed by some because “you’re a raider”, but it’s my opinion. And I’m not one who no-lifes content to the point where I finish it all in a day or a week, because I go to school full-time and I also like to spend my free time doing other things (like reading and writing). I log in, at most, for a couple hours in the evening; rarely do I spend all day actively playing the game anymore. I spent the most time in-game when I was progging Ultimate compared to the time I spend in it now progging Alphascape. I’ve even “saved up” doing content to try and give me reasons to log in during the 4.5 draught we’re inevitably going to have. Because, if I hadn’t, why even log in?

And it does have me concerned about 5.0. Is it going to be more of the same? Are they going to listen to the constructive criticisms, or just continue to push their “vision” onto the playerbase? I can only hope that the developers actually listen to some of the reasonable feedback—I can only hope that they don’t stick the relic in a piece of content like Eureka and instead tie it to more types of content like ARR and HW was.

And one day I will not write a novel as a response to someone.

[MetalSnakeXI1]

And one day I will not write a novel as a response to someone.

Note:Sorry I couldn't quote the entire post cuz the character limitation only allows for 4000 characters.


I'm not dismissing what you say.....it's just I'm a bit of a newbie since I joined in June of this year so I don't have the broader perspective a veteran who's been playing since ARR(or 1.0 if they had the patience of a saint) so I'm a bit of a casual MMO player...........that and the type of content I dig into differs from most people so I can only speak of stuff like Eureka and what little I played of it and the raids I'm participating in alongside ex primals.

I'm with you on Eureka 100% tho,I was too bored with it to even bother continuing to the hell that is pagos and I kinda wish they'd just wrap it up with Logos and Pyros and move on to either improving the current content or creating better content in its place

And while yes some people may have finished everything with how long the game's been out in-between expansions,they need to improve the pace in which content is released a little bit(tho there is so much crunching one can do to a dev team to push content frequently).

You're not wrong(even if I don't agree about few points you mentioned) and Square Enix does need to listen(and they better be).........but it's at a time like this where a break from the game would be necessary

I know that's practically a forbidden thing to say with games like this cuz of the whole "You might go play the competition like WoW or something" but even Wow struggles to address all the feedback from their playerbase and all the issues marring the current expansion there.

MMOs as a genre seems to struggle the most when it comes to keeping their playerbase alive and justify the subscription fee,sure some do it better than others but they all struggle at the same points from my observations

Thats where I take a break and play something else(be it an online MMO,a competitive online game,a fighting game or heck just regular single player stuff) for a while before coming back to the game.

I'm probably the least qualified person on this entire forum to talk about the situation so take what I say with a grain of salt.Tho just know that while I don't complain much I'm far from being a fanboy or a worshipper.After all I wanna see this game flourish and improve just as much as you even if I seem a bit passive about it

I don't want what's currently my favorite Final Fantasy game to be ruined by Square the same way they did with the rest of the series from XIII onward

[Vidu]

Note:Sorry I couldn't quote the entire post cuz the character limitation only allows for 4000 characters.

Just a quick note on this: You can bypass the characterlimit by editing your post - just type your novel, quote as much as you want, copy the whole thing, post something as a placeholder and edit your novel back in - tada! More than 3.000 characters (which is the current limit - at least they increased that from 1.000... still one of those rather weird things they have...)