To FFXIV Team From a Concerned Machinist

[Zerathor]

The main issue mch has (aside from playstyle being very difficult and ping reliant) lays more in brd just being the superior choice, while also being substantially easier to play.

Adjusting mch to be more comfortable to properly play is certainly a must, but I don't think they should be buffed up to where brd currently is. Rather, brd needs to be brought down closer to mch levels of party dps contribution.

Why? Because if mch got boosted to being a competitive option against where bard currently is, mch will not be competing with bard. Casters will go back to not being in parties again. nin/drg/brd/mch double ranged, infinite synergy, max dps, along with double refresh, double palisade, double every bs range utility will reign again as the uncontested best party comp, outside of a fight that would absolutely require a caster lb3. I don't want to go through that again.

A range dps will always be in a party comp, regardless of their contribution in regards to the melee, or a caster, solely do to refresh. The easiest course of action that wouldn't result in double range being the absolute best static option would be to reduce bard's power a bit so they have to compete against another job.

[Darkpaw]

The main issue mch has (aside from playstyle being very difficult and ping reliant) lays more in brd just being the superior choice, while also being substantially easier to play.

Adjusting mch to be more comfortable to properly play is certainly a must, but I don't think they should be buffed up to where brd currently is. Rather, brd needs to be brought down closer to mch levels of party dps contribution.

Why? Because if mch got boosted to being a competitive option against where bard currently is, mch will not be competing with bard. Casters will go back to not being in parties again. nin/drg/brd/mch double ranged, infinite synergy, max dps, along with double refresh, double palisade, double every bs range utility will reign again as the uncontested best party comp, outside of a fight that would absolutely require a caster lb3. I don't want to go through that again.

A range dps will always be in a party comp, regardless of their contribution in regards to the melee, or a caster, solely do to refresh. The easiest course of action that wouldn't result in double range being the absolute best static option would be to reduce bard's power a bit so they have to compete against another job.

They will not nerf bard. They have said on repeated occasions they are absolutely happy with where bard is right now, and given it is one of the most popular jobs in the game. I highly doubt we'll see nerfs to bard anytime soon. There are plenty of other ways to stop the double ranged meta from coming back, but you bring up a point several others have. Machinists shouldn't be competing with casters for a slot in parties.. So machinist does need to be brought up to bard levels, however there needs to be a system in place where they aren't able to stack party buffs, that would solve most of the problems. Or give machinists less party utility and a lot more damage to offset them from Bard and do what they've done to every other role.. casters have blm as their huge number job, summoner as their hybrid job, and red mage as the utility job... melee has samurai as the high damage job, drg and mnk in the middle as hybrid jobs, and nin as the utility job with the lowest numbers... bard can be the utility job great for them.. give machinists back the damage and make it good if that's the main concern.

[Lastelli]

Or give machinists less party utility and a lot more damage to offset them from Bard and do what they've done to every other role.. casters have blm as their huge number job, summoner as their hybrid job, and red mage as the utility job... melee has samurai as the high damage job, drg and mnk in the middle as hybrid jobs, and nin as the utility job with the lowest numbers... bard can be the utility job great for them.. give machinists back the damage and make it good if that's the main concern.

That won't work. Give MCH more damage and it just becomes meta again, making all other dps jobs except brd, drg and nin strictly inferior. Damage is damage, no matter if it's pdps or rdps.
From a dps point of view MCH is still in a good spot, albeit not as good as brd. Don't expect any changes before 5.0, as MCH problem has to do more with its playstyle than its dps. But we'll need to wait until the next expansion before MCH is finally fixed.

If they want ranged dps to be mandatory as they are now thanks to refresh, they need to give casters an equally mandatory role action. It's not even so hard to do...just make refresh a role skill for casters, increase tp consumption across all physical jobs and let brd/mch keep tactitian. There, problem solved.

Alternatively, they can make casters mantadtory with fight mechanics. Introduce mechanics that absolutely require the presence of a caster to be executed. Again, problem solved. It is easy, damn it. However, that wouldn't solve MCH current situation unless they make its gameplay more enjoyable and less punishing and ping reliant...unless they grossly overtune it of course.

[Darkpaw]

That won't work. Give MCH more damage and it just becomes meta again, making all other dps jobs except brd, drg and nin strictly inferior. Damage is damage, no matter if it's pdps or rdps.
From a dps point of view MCH is still in a good spot, albeit not as good as brd. Don't expect any changes before 5.0, as MCH problem has to do more with its playstyle than its dps. But we'll need to wait until the next expansion before MCH is finally fixed.

If they want ranged dps to be mandatory as they are now thanks to refresh, they need to give casters an equally mandatory role action. It's not even so hard to do...just make refresh a role skill for casters, increase tp consumption across all physical jobs and let brd/mch keep tactitian. There, problem solved.

Alternatively, they can make casters mantadtory with fight mechanics. Introduce mechanics that absolutely require the presence of a caster to be executed. Again, problem solved. It is easy, damn it. However, that wouldn't solve MCH current situation unless they make its gameplay more enjoyable and less punishing and ping reliant...unless they grossly overtune it of course.

I'm all too familiar with the idea of not getting fixed before 5.0 and yes you are right the playstyle is in the primary concern. It's what we're all waiting to hear about, but we still haven't gotten a reply so, and this isn't so much about end game meta comps or anything like that thinking of it.. like I don't want this whole conversation to rely on what's meta and what's not.. the whole premise of this expansion was to simplify jobs, make all jobs more accessible to everyone, less button presses, bring up the skill floor and lower the skill ceiling so everyone was on more equalish footing.. Machinist is the antithesis of this.. it's busted, only able to be played optimally sub100 ping... this job is a nightmare and thoroughly unenjoyable.