To FFXIV Team From a Concerned Machinist

[Kitfox]

That said I think it would be better if Overheat and Wildfire were changed to be stack-based effects, that only factor in weaponskills.

While this by itself would be a bit of a lackluster change, I think it would be a good direction for the change. Currently MCH rotation requires aligning every single ability for Overheat and Wildfire. That means there's actually just one job mechanic and the entire toolkit is bound and locked into it. The result is that any delay or mistake affects the whole rotation.

This is in stark contrast to something like BRD or SMN that have rotational segments that work independently of one another. BRD has its song rotation as a base, each song has it's own internal mechanic, and you have a burst phase that you align with your best song and Barrage. Messing up the timing of one ogcd here or there barely has an effect on the rotation as a whole. SMN similarly has its DoT refresh cycle, Aetherflow cycle, DWT phases and Bahamut burst phase. All of them are linked to each other through Aetherflow, but have great amount of flexibility in their timing. Even RDM has their spell rotation and melee combos, but their physical ogcds are not tied to any particular part of their rotation.

It would be a healthy change to decouple some of the mechanics from Wildfire to make the rotation less error prone.

[Grimoire-M]

-snip-

To be honest I hate the non-segmented micro-phases of Stormblood's Summoner. They're nowhere near as interesting or meaningful as Bard's and are completely forced to the active detriment of the job as a whole. It functioned a lot better in Heavensward where it was all in one window but you could pick when to do it and what you were doing during it to some extent. The only problems it had in HW was clipping Festers was mandatory (imo Ruin IV would've solved this issue), Aethertrail was on a timer (but you wouldn't get triple Aetherflow in anyways due to the longer cooldown), and too many buttons of setup, much like MCH currently has during its Wildfire window. But it was easier than current MCH because you could afford to wait, and Contagion was easy to mash on during DWT itself till it fired. I'd be less bothered by the phases if they actually changed up the rotation meaningfully like BRD does. As it stands DWT is a mobility cooldown, Rouse + Enkindle no longer lines up so you don't really notice either in action, and Bahamut does what DWT + Raging Strikes did in HW but worse due to Wyrmwave basically forcing clipping your GCD to time it out properly. They're certainly functional, but their numbers are why they're good. They're not well designed and are overtuned at the moment to hide the fact they needed more little more thought put into them.

I'd much rather have DWT/Rouse/Bahamut all combined into a single button and balance SMN around a 20s burst window where all you worry about is Aetherflow usage during it. I'd want some other way of making their filler outside of DWT more interesting and giving them something to spend Aetherflow on during downtime/invul phases to ensure they can still pick when to go off without losing efficiency in dodge heavy segments. Ideally purely through a resource generation mechanic tied to Ruin I/II to access a stronger Ruin III/IV outside of DWT instead of relying on a proc. That would differentiate it from MCH and BRD significantly. Maybe add more ways to use Aetherflow abilities but not generate more Aetherflow/trail stacks too, but that's not the primary concern imo.

MCH's problem is their burst window is too short and too strong in potency (Same with Trick Attack, if we're being honest) and their heat generation is a non-factor at best and an active detriment at worst thanks to a combination of skill speed and Flamethrower. Sure, their filler would be fine with minor adjustments but Three button filler is still more interesting than one button filler. Wildfire/Overheat/Flamethrower/Gauss Barrel/Barrel Stabilizer are all atrocious individually and in aggregate at the moment and obviously need to be looked at. They absolutely got the worst treatment out of any class in this expansion, and it's clear it was rushed. Even more than Summoner & White Mage were.

BRD's problem is their crit procs scale with crit rate raid buffs and make them either too good or too weak in personal dps depending on your group. Piercing isn't the only issue for them. Like SMN they're they're in an overwhelmingly good spot at the moment, and better designed now than they ever have been before. However, they are poorly balanced. Their raid utility is too good at the moment too. Whether it's unique to them or their role. They're completely wound into why the meta is what it is. If you removed them this game would look way different. Different enough that the only meta class is NIN.

I'd like their procs normalized. Whether that's moving them from crit to direct hit or making them static percentages tuned to each song. That way they're always capable of the same amount of damage no matter what composition they're participating in next expansion. Their song phases are unique and interesting but I kinda wish SE would tone down their utility a bit by reworking both Paeon and Foe Requiem. Paeon is boring, obviously. The reason I propose Foes gets a rework is mainly so BRD has some choice in which song to use depending on the needs of the situation at cap, gets more to do while levelling, and loses some of their dps utility and dumb mana interactions. Battle Voice and permanent 2% crit rate for the whole party is more than enough. I don't mind if they have to pick 3 out of 4 songs every Raging Strikes rotation. Having Minuet as the dedicated Single target song and either Foes/Paeon as dedicated AoE with Ballad and the other one holding up your filler with even AoE/Single target contribution through different approaches. Ballad via the Bloodletter resets. The other via empowering your weaponskills in potency and attack speed. That would be fine imo.

Also while Barrage doesn't affect AoE and I'm glad it doesn't at the moment, I don't think I'd mind if it did so via a trait upgrade next expansion. Mainly via secondary effects. Maybe a spread multi-dot on one of the bites. Refresh with Iron Jaws, guaranteed Triple hit + proc with Empyreal Arrow. Refulgent Arrow gets spread if multiple targets but retains the triple-hit on single. Triple Quick Nock would be great and busted. It would retain a hard limit of up to three total attacks with whatever you used it with though, and might open the cooldown up to being changed around. It's not something I'd want to see over everything else mentioned above, but if it all did, then maybe this would be neat.

[Darkpaw]

While I appreciate the enthusiasm the point here really isn't about summoner or bard. This is to bring attention to the machinist, because while you personally may not like the summoner play style. It's in a fantastic spot and is a well loved job so, gonna just leave that at that, and bard. We all know why bard is better than machinist. I'm not here asking for bard nerfs. I'm asking for MCH fixes and machinist needs a lot of fixes. I want the acknowledgement of that.. I want to hear that a rework is being planned for Machinist from the creative team itself. Not this whole "oh they rework every job to some degree at expansion." no.. I mean I want to hear that machinists are right their class is busted and it needs to be fixed.

[Zerathor]

The main issue mch has (aside from playstyle being very difficult and ping reliant) lays more in brd just being the superior choice, while also being substantially easier to play.

Adjusting mch to be more comfortable to properly play is certainly a must, but I don't think they should be buffed up to where brd currently is. Rather, brd needs to be brought down closer to mch levels of party dps contribution.

Why? Because if mch got boosted to being a competitive option against where bard currently is, mch will not be competing with bard. Casters will go back to not being in parties again. nin/drg/brd/mch double ranged, infinite synergy, max dps, along with double refresh, double palisade, double every bs range utility will reign again as the uncontested best party comp, outside of a fight that would absolutely require a caster lb3. I don't want to go through that again.

A range dps will always be in a party comp, regardless of their contribution in regards to the melee, or a caster, solely do to refresh. The easiest course of action that wouldn't result in double range being the absolute best static option would be to reduce bard's power a bit so they have to compete against another job.

[Darkpaw]

The main issue mch has (aside from playstyle being very difficult and ping reliant) lays more in brd just being the superior choice, while also being substantially easier to play.

Adjusting mch to be more comfortable to properly play is certainly a must, but I don't think they should be buffed up to where brd currently is. Rather, brd needs to be brought down closer to mch levels of party dps contribution.

Why? Because if mch got boosted to being a competitive option against where bard currently is, mch will not be competing with bard. Casters will go back to not being in parties again. nin/drg/brd/mch double ranged, infinite synergy, max dps, along with double refresh, double palisade, double every bs range utility will reign again as the uncontested best party comp, outside of a fight that would absolutely require a caster lb3. I don't want to go through that again.

A range dps will always be in a party comp, regardless of their contribution in regards to the melee, or a caster, solely do to refresh. The easiest course of action that wouldn't result in double range being the absolute best static option would be to reduce bard's power a bit so they have to compete against another job.

They will not nerf bard. They have said on repeated occasions they are absolutely happy with where bard is right now, and given it is one of the most popular jobs in the game. I highly doubt we'll see nerfs to bard anytime soon. There are plenty of other ways to stop the double ranged meta from coming back, but you bring up a point several others have. Machinists shouldn't be competing with casters for a slot in parties.. So machinist does need to be brought up to bard levels, however there needs to be a system in place where they aren't able to stack party buffs, that would solve most of the problems. Or give machinists less party utility and a lot more damage to offset them from Bard and do what they've done to every other role.. casters have blm as their huge number job, summoner as their hybrid job, and red mage as the utility job... melee has samurai as the high damage job, drg and mnk in the middle as hybrid jobs, and nin as the utility job with the lowest numbers... bard can be the utility job great for them.. give machinists back the damage and make it good if that's the main concern.

[Lastelli]

Or give machinists less party utility and a lot more damage to offset them from Bard and do what they've done to every other role.. casters have blm as their huge number job, summoner as their hybrid job, and red mage as the utility job... melee has samurai as the high damage job, drg and mnk in the middle as hybrid jobs, and nin as the utility job with the lowest numbers... bard can be the utility job great for them.. give machinists back the damage and make it good if that's the main concern.

That won't work. Give MCH more damage and it just becomes meta again, making all other dps jobs except brd, drg and nin strictly inferior. Damage is damage, no matter if it's pdps or rdps.
From a dps point of view MCH is still in a good spot, albeit not as good as brd. Don't expect any changes before 5.0, as MCH problem has to do more with its playstyle than its dps. But we'll need to wait until the next expansion before MCH is finally fixed.

If they want ranged dps to be mandatory as they are now thanks to refresh, they need to give casters an equally mandatory role action. It's not even so hard to do...just make refresh a role skill for casters, increase tp consumption across all physical jobs and let brd/mch keep tactitian. There, problem solved.

Alternatively, they can make casters mantadtory with fight mechanics. Introduce mechanics that absolutely require the presence of a caster to be executed. Again, problem solved. It is easy, damn it. However, that wouldn't solve MCH current situation unless they make its gameplay more enjoyable and less punishing and ping reliant...unless they grossly overtune it of course.

[Darkpaw]

That won't work. Give MCH more damage and it just becomes meta again, making all other dps jobs except brd, drg and nin strictly inferior. Damage is damage, no matter if it's pdps or rdps.
From a dps point of view MCH is still in a good spot, albeit not as good as brd. Don't expect any changes before 5.0, as MCH problem has to do more with its playstyle than its dps. But we'll need to wait until the next expansion before MCH is finally fixed.

If they want ranged dps to be mandatory as they are now thanks to refresh, they need to give casters an equally mandatory role action. It's not even so hard to do...just make refresh a role skill for casters, increase tp consumption across all physical jobs and let brd/mch keep tactitian. There, problem solved.

Alternatively, they can make casters mantadtory with fight mechanics. Introduce mechanics that absolutely require the presence of a caster to be executed. Again, problem solved. It is easy, damn it. However, that wouldn't solve MCH current situation unless they make its gameplay more enjoyable and less punishing and ping reliant...unless they grossly overtune it of course.

I'm all too familiar with the idea of not getting fixed before 5.0 and yes you are right the playstyle is in the primary concern. It's what we're all waiting to hear about, but we still haven't gotten a reply so, and this isn't so much about end game meta comps or anything like that thinking of it.. like I don't want this whole conversation to rely on what's meta and what's not.. the whole premise of this expansion was to simplify jobs, make all jobs more accessible to everyone, less button presses, bring up the skill floor and lower the skill ceiling so everyone was on more equalish footing.. Machinist is the antithesis of this.. it's busted, only able to be played optimally sub100 ping... this job is a nightmare and thoroughly unenjoyable.

[Darkpaw]

Bumping to keep it near the top

[Grimoire-M]

I'd be fine with a Foes rework to bring BRD's raid DPS down a bit. Maybe nerf Song crit to 1% as well. Not sure if Battle Voice would need a nerf in that case. It would depend on whether MCH saw another raid DPS skill next expansion. Which I think they could use for sure.

[Duskane]

Utility wise MCH could be a damage mitigater
Since it already has dismantle
Just give MCH palisade and a aoe version of it aka a not so situational troubadour