Is it weird that I like Zenos as a villain?

[Edax]

a useless character?Dude that's an entire patch of MSQ quests dedicated to that "useless" character and his friends in Heavensward and that wasn't even the last time Elidibus appeared in Heavensward either,after that he gives the eyes of Nidhogg to Illberd whom then would use to FREAKIN SUMMON SHINRYU THROUGH A RITUAL.

There is no way you missed ALL of this without buying scenario skips or pressing skip through every cutscene

Yeah, he wasted an entire patch. Warrior of Darkness had absolutely nothing to do with the Dragonsong War. He was a complete filler character.
/sarcasm Oh he destroyed his own world and now he wanted to destroy ours? What a compelling character!

[Theodric]

Yeah, he wasted an entire patch. Warrior of Darkness had absolutely nothing to do with the Dragonsong War. He was a complete filler character.

I get the feeling that a lot of the game's nuances are lost on you in general.

Heavensward may have been primarily about Ishgard and the Dragonsong War but it was hardly the only plot element to be destroyed. The Warrior of Darkness advanced a plot line that has been a part of the overarching narrative since the days of 1.0...it isn't as if a story has to focus on one plot point at a time and nothing else. That'd be rather dull.

/sarcasm Oh he destroyed his own world and now he wanted to destroy ours? What a compelling character!

It's a good thing it isn't that simple, eh? He did exactly why Hydaelyn told him to do. The exact same thing that the Warrior of Light is doing right now, in fact...and despite doing everything correctly his world was still plunged into ruin and his life was forfeit as a consequence as well as the lives of everybody he cared for.

[Ramesses]

I get the feeling that a lot of the game's nuances are lost on you in general.

My thoughts exactly Theo... my thoughts exactly. +1

Edax, I've tried to really understand your side of your arguments and comments; however, it seems you might have misunderstood several of the core subtleties of the game's MSQ.

[MetalSnakeXI1]

Yeah, he wasted an entire patch. Warrior of Darkness had absolutely nothing to do with the Dragonsong War. He was a complete filler character.
/sarcasm Oh he destroyed his own world and now he wanted to destroy ours? What a compelling character!

Ummm...you do realize that they appeared AFTER the end of the dragonsong war so yes they have nothing to do with it BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY OVER.

And like Theodric said before me....this has been a plotline since 1.0.

His plotline's existence is to send a message to the warrior of light,who btw has been doing the same thing Hydaelyn tasked them to do as he did.The fact that there are consequences to our seemingly heroic action and as mentioned before....there are lots of people we killed that have actual loved ones in their lives whom they wished to protect by doing what they thought to be the "right thing" like Livia,Rhitatyn and the knights of the Heavens Ward.

If you want this to be a classic FF story like FF1 or 3 where the heroes are always doing the right thing and they will always prevail with no consequences to anything they do......then I dunno if there is anything in 14 past ARR that would interest you if you expect a permenant solution to the ascian problem especially when the story isn't even over yet.Cuz even the defeat of Thordan shook the very foundation of Ishgard and resulted in a dozen consequences.

[Edax]

Ummm...you do realize that they appeared AFTER the end of the dragonsong war so yes they have nothing to do with it BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY OVER.

Ummm...you do realize the expansion is called HEAVENSWARD.

If you want this to be a classic FF story like FF1 or 3 where the heroes are always doing the right thing and they will always prevail with no consequences to anything they do......then I dunno if there is anything in 14 past ARR that would interest you if you expect a permenant solution to the ascian problem especially when the story isn't even over yet.Cuz even the defeat of Thordan shook the very foundation of Ishgard and resulted in a dozen consequences.

No, that's the last thing I want. I want better villains. I've been to Anime Expo many times, I can't remember seeing anyone dress up as an Ascian. And I can understand why, who cares about them? Look at this poor writing, so we gotta just put up with everything that Elidibus does because we'll risk destroying the world with light if we defeat him and his cohorts. So what, if he develops a spanking machine, we gotta bend over or risk destroying the world? This writing is childish! These guys can possess every World Leader if they wanted and have every city-state fight each other to the death because they have unlimited, undefined powers at this point, and we're not allowed to stop them anymore either.

[Enla]

Ummm...you do realize the expansion is called HEAVENSWARD.

Which is the name of Count Edmont De Fortemp's book as shown at the end of tail-end of that particular storyline. It's also an /actual/ word, which as the name implies, means towards heaven. Which given the heavy religious themes of the expansion and two societies literally being pulled out of a thousand year war towards a brighter future is rather apt. It's a simple example of a double meaning and word play which is lost if you just take it at face value as 'oh it's just the name of the secondary villains'. Is it the best use of it? Not really, but the dual meanings for the expansion are practically beating you over the head once the Ishgard part of the storyline is over and are exceedingly hard to miss.

Also the entire set up for Ala Mhigo happened in the last two patches of Heavensward. That entire story was effectively done once Nidhogg died and the rest of the wrap up until Stormblood focused away from Ishgard's conflicts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Edax]

Which is the name of Count Edmont De Fortemp's book as shown at the end of tail-end of that particular storyline. It's also an /actual/ word, which as the name implies, means towards heaven. Which given the heavy religious themes of the expansion and two societies literally being pulled out of a thousand year war towards a brighter future is rather apt. It's a simple example of a double meaning and word play which is lost if you just take it at face value as 'oh it's just the name of the secondary villains'. Is it the best use of it? Not really, but the dual meanings for the expansion are practically beating you over the head once the Ishgard part of the storyline is over and are exceedingly hard to miss.

Also the entire set up for Ala Mhigo happened in the last two patches of Heavensward. That entire story was effectively done once Nidhogg died and the rest of the wrap up until Stormblood focused away from Ishgard's conflicts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You have a point there. I guess the Heavensward patches did meander for quite a bit.

[MetalSnakeXI1]

Ummm...you do realize the expansion is called HEAVENSWARD.



No, that's the last thing I want. I want better villains. I've been to Anime Expo many times, I can't remember seeing anyone dress up as an Ascian. And I can understand why, who cares about them? Look at this poor writing, so we gotta just put up with everything that Elidibus does because we'll risk destroying the world with light if we defeat him and his cohorts. So what, if he develops a spanking machine, we gotta bend over or risk destroying the world? This writing is childish! These guys can possess every World Leader if they wanted and have every city-state fight each other to the death because they have unlimited, undefined powers at this point, and we're not allowed to stop them anymore either.

Duh I know.....I'm just differenciating between the name of the expansion and Thordan's Knights who btw ARE ALSO CALLED THE HEAVENSWARD YET YOU CONFUSED THE TWO.

Also I'm not defending the ascians by any means and beside Elidibus they're my least favorite aspect of the game so don't take me defending other elements as a defense of the ascians

Honestly of all the things I will criticize this game for, the villains wouldn't even enter the top fifty for consideration. Really my only problem with villains in this game is how the writers sometimes force otherwise competent characters to be beaten to death with the idiot stick in order to add weight and menace to villains that should be able to stand up on their own. It cheapens what are otherwise decent antagonists because you can't help but sit there, groaning as the Scions bumble through something that anyone with two brain cells can piece together when just quests before they were perfectly competent. Asahi is the perfect example of this. Whatever competency Alphinaud, Alisaie, and Hien had was thrown to the side because the writers took the short and cheap way to pull a twist anyone could have seen coming from a mile away.

When it comes to the WoD, I'd say he was actually handled fairly competently by comparison. As were Elidibus, Zenos, and Gaius; and all the main villains that weren't introduced and killed off in the secondary patches between expansions. I'd also hesitate to call him a filler character because that plot line is pretty clearly unfinished and a basis for something that might come later down the road. They're pretty clearly setting something up with the World of Light given that Minfillia went with them, and SE is loathe to fully shelve that character in spite of general fan distaste.

Honestly I wasn't too fond of the scions in ARR either especially Minfillia in particular cuz I can't stand her.It was why I was glad in Heavensward they were barely there

As for the villains....again my taste is weird(and probably a garbage taste by most standards).

[Iscah]

Duh I know.....I'm just differenciating between the name of the expansion and Thordan's Knights who btw ARE ALSO CALLED THE HEAVENSWARD YET YOU CONFUSED THE TWO.

Actually, while the game - and Edmont's book - is titled "Heavensward" (ie. "towards the heavens"), Thordan's knights are the "Heavens' Ward" (intended to be "guard of the heavens", I think, though I'm not sure the grammar is right).

The game title is multilayered of course, between "heavensward", the Heavens' Ward and perhaps also us being a ward of House Fortemps.


Also, no need to shout. It adds nothing to your argument and makes you come off as really aggressive.

[MetalSnakeXI1]

Actually, while the game - and Edmont's book - is titled "Heavensward" (ie. "towards the heavens"), Thordan's knights are the "Heavens' Ward" (intended to be "guard of the heavens", I think, though I'm not sure the grammar is right).

The game title is multilayered of course, between "heavensward", the Heavens' Ward and perhaps also us being a ward of House Fortemps.


Also, no need to shout. It adds nothing to your argument and makes you come off as really aggressive.

Sorry for the shouting.....I just got aggrevated when out of all of what I said he nitpicked that one bit and ignored the rest