Is it weird that I like Zenos as a villain?

[MetalSnakeXI1]

Yeah, he wasted an entire patch. Warrior of Darkness had absolutely nothing to do with the Dragonsong War. He was a complete filler character.
/sarcasm Oh he destroyed his own world and now he wanted to destroy ours? What a compelling character!

Ummm...you do realize that they appeared AFTER the end of the dragonsong war so yes they have nothing to do with it BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY OVER.

And like Theodric said before me....this has been a plotline since 1.0.

His plotline's existence is to send a message to the warrior of light,who btw has been doing the same thing Hydaelyn tasked them to do as he did.The fact that there are consequences to our seemingly heroic action and as mentioned before....there are lots of people we killed that have actual loved ones in their lives whom they wished to protect by doing what they thought to be the "right thing" like Livia,Rhitatyn and the knights of the Heavens Ward.

If you want this to be a classic FF story like FF1 or 3 where the heroes are always doing the right thing and they will always prevail with no consequences to anything they do......then I dunno if there is anything in 14 past ARR that would interest you if you expect a permenant solution to the ascian problem especially when the story isn't even over yet.Cuz even the defeat of Thordan shook the very foundation of Ishgard and resulted in a dozen consequences.

[Ramesses]

I get the feeling that a lot of the game's nuances are lost on you in general.

My thoughts exactly Theo... my thoughts exactly. +1

Edax, I've tried to really understand your side of your arguments and comments; however, it seems you might have misunderstood several of the core subtleties of the game's MSQ.

[Enla]

Honestly of all the things I will criticize this game for, the villains wouldn't even enter the top fifty for consideration. Really my only problem with villains in this game is how the writers sometimes force otherwise competent characters to be beaten to death with the idiot stick in order to add weight and menace to villains that should be able to stand up on their own. It cheapens what are otherwise decent antagonists because you can't help but sit there, groaning as the Scions bumble through something that anyone with two brain cells can piece together when just quests before they were perfectly competent. Asahi is the perfect example of this. Whatever competency Alphinaud, Alisaie, and Hien had was thrown to the side because the writers took the short and cheap way to pull a twist anyone could have seen coming from a mile away.

When it comes to the WoD, I'd say he was actually handled fairly competently by comparison. As were Elidibus, Zenos, and Gaius; and all the main villains that weren't introduced and killed off in the secondary patches between expansions. I'd also hesitate to call him a filler character because that plot line is pretty clearly unfinished and a basis for something that might come later down the road. They're pretty clearly setting something up with the World of Light given that Minfillia went with them, and SE is loathe to fully shelve that character in spite of general fan distaste.

[Edax]

Ummm...you do realize that they appeared AFTER the end of the dragonsong war so yes they have nothing to do with it BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY OVER.

Ummm...you do realize the expansion is called HEAVENSWARD.

If you want this to be a classic FF story like FF1 or 3 where the heroes are always doing the right thing and they will always prevail with no consequences to anything they do......then I dunno if there is anything in 14 past ARR that would interest you if you expect a permenant solution to the ascian problem especially when the story isn't even over yet.Cuz even the defeat of Thordan shook the very foundation of Ishgard and resulted in a dozen consequences.

No, that's the last thing I want. I want better villains. I've been to Anime Expo many times, I can't remember seeing anyone dress up as an Ascian. And I can understand why, who cares about them? Look at this poor writing, so we gotta just put up with everything that Elidibus does because we'll risk destroying the world with light if we defeat him and his cohorts. So what, if he develops a spanking machine, we gotta bend over or risk destroying the world? This writing is childish! These guys can possess every World Leader if they wanted and have every city-state fight each other to the death because they have unlimited, undefined powers at this point, and we're not allowed to stop them anymore either.

[Enla]

Ummm...you do realize the expansion is called HEAVENSWARD.

Which is the name of Count Edmont De Fortemp's book as shown at the end of tail-end of that particular storyline. It's also an /actual/ word, which as the name implies, means towards heaven. Which given the heavy religious themes of the expansion and two societies literally being pulled out of a thousand year war towards a brighter future is rather apt. It's a simple example of a double meaning and word play which is lost if you just take it at face value as 'oh it's just the name of the secondary villains'. Is it the best use of it? Not really, but the dual meanings for the expansion are practically beating you over the head once the Ishgard part of the storyline is over and are exceedingly hard to miss.

Also the entire set up for Ala Mhigo happened in the last two patches of Heavensward. That entire story was effectively done once Nidhogg died and the rest of the wrap up until Stormblood focused away from Ishgard's conflicts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Edax]

Which is the name of Count Edmont De Fortemp's book as shown at the end of tail-end of that particular storyline. It's also an /actual/ word, which as the name implies, means towards heaven. Which given the heavy religious themes of the expansion and two societies literally being pulled out of a thousand year war towards a brighter future is rather apt. It's a simple example of a double meaning and word play which is lost if you just take it at face value as 'oh it's just the name of the secondary villains'. Is it the best use of it? Not really, but the dual meanings for the expansion are practically beating you over the head once the Ishgard part of the storyline is over and are exceedingly hard to miss.

Also the entire set up for Ala Mhigo happened in the last two patches of Heavensward. That entire story was effectively done once Nidhogg died and the rest of the wrap up until Stormblood focused away from Ishgard's conflicts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You have a point there. I guess the Heavensward patches did meander for quite a bit.

[Fynlar]

"Come at me eikon slayer"
>turns into a eikon
Idiot

I chuckled.

Zenos is why everybody should be playing with Japanese voices. Whoever was in charge of the English VA work did a horrible job.

I, too, love watching scenes of people talking in a language I don't know. Definitely enriches the experience.

I think after this I'll go watch an episode of Star Trek in French, just cuz.

[Iscah]

(SPOILER ALERT again for both previous and current patches)


Remember the sahagin priest from ARR and how he used the echo to possess different bodies similar to what the Ascians do?

Well Zenos used the Resonant(a power that is pretty much the same as the echo) to send his soul to a different body.....that of an Elezen who was a part of the Ala Mhigan resistance.

That elezen appeared in a cutscene inside the Magitek research facility in Gyr Abania where he killed a resistance member,stole a garlean magitek vehicle and mentioned that "the hunt" must continue......using the same sword zenos used and displaying the same power zenos used.

We've *assumed* it's the Resonance that allowed Zenos to do that.... but can't be 100% sure. (I've seen an alternate theory that it might be something to do with the sword - which seemed to initially get pointed out as 'something special' but that's never come up again... so perhaps some chance of an ancient relic being able to harbour a soul until the next unfortunate person comes along and picks it up. Compare the lore surrounding the primal Odin, which suggests the primal actually resides in the sword while the armoured rider is a tempered mortal.)


In any case, the "katana-wielding soldier" is certainly intended to be Zenos, and there are several cues.

- his choice of weapon (whether it's the exact same sword or not)

- his reference to "the hunt"

- speaking in theatrical metaphors - Zenos also did this in the scene at Ala Mhigo just before he killed himself. Possibly earlier too - would not be surprised it it's a running feature of his dialogue I didn't notice at the time. I will pay more attention when I get to replaying Stormblood!

- saying he has "lost many things, but his mind is still his own" - implying that his body is not.

- just before flying off, he smirks - and it's very much Zenos's expression on a different face.

[Anyan]

I've made it no secret that I love him. And unlike a lot of other people I do sympathies with him. There just wasn't enough of him. I'm hopeful though that I'll see him again (not just the body) but enjoy the presence of his mind and soul.
I hated Yotsuyo with a burning passion. She was weak, disgusting and pathetic to me, and I wanted her dead as soon as possible. The fact that she took the only other character (Asahi) from the whole expansion with her in her fall surely didn't make it any better. It certainly didn't soften my annoyance overall of SE's habit of killing or ruining characters I like.
I miss them.

[Alleo]

No. And Zenos was just picking up random weapons off the ground to use, so that doesn't even match up what that random Elezen using Zeno's katana. So that's implying that Elezen is somebody else since Zeno's defining trait was that he wasn't attached to any of his weapons.

Yet somehow he still always used Katana. We have it not 100% confirmed as true but his talk, the way he attacks, the comment about dieing but not feeling like going for redemption and the talk about the hunt and his knowledge about Garlean technology makes it quite clear that its probably him.

About fighting alone or in a group, here are some quotes out of the lore book:

Garuda: "[..] the trio emarked upon their journey to confront Garuda." "Amidst the whirling winds the adventurer suceeded in striking down the Lady of the Vortex, only to see her rise once more [...]"

Rhitahtyn sas Arvina: "The adventurer then led a small unit into the innermost sector, and at the end of a fierce struggle, dealt [..] his death-blow"

Castrum Meridianum: "[...] the selfsame adventurer [...] once more took charge of an elite adventurer unit." "[...] Cid nan Garlond delivered the adventurer and his comrades to the stage of the final confrontation with Gaisu [...]"

Ultima Weapon: " [...] the adventurer was spared death and as the fires raged all about, he laid low both Gaius and his Ultima Weapon." (seemingly the rest has died)

Ramuh: "[...] the Lord of Levin elected to suspend judgement until the Warrior of Light himself underwent a trial by combat. Thus was he forced to strike down Ramuh [...]"

Against Nabriales: "He then tore open a dimensional rift [...] and the Warrior of Light followed. In that otherwordly void the adventurer defeated his Ascian foe and rescued Minfilia, returning all three to the Rising Stones."

The steps of Faith: "[...] that the Scions make every effort to assemble a contingent of elite adventurers - a volunteer force under the leadership of the Warrior of Light."

King Thordan: "Judgement passed the self-proclaimed god-king duly turned to leave, but not before issuing the Warrior of Light a challenge. [...] he would need to strike him and his knights down. How the Warrior of LIght managed to overcome such impossible odds that day, none can say."

This are only small examples but the lore book makes it quite clear when we are alone and when we have other adventurers with us. As far as I can see we only had them with us at the end of 2.0 against Garlemald and at the steps of faith (where we searched for adventurers even ingame). Every single primae was done solo according to lore book and some even wonder how he for example manages to slay Thordan and his knights alone. That way the story also makes sense because we simply had no time to get adventurers in most of the scenes. So for me it makes sense that ingame all the talk about having comrades is mostly just a hint for us to gather people and maybe an ingame joke about this.

About the topic: I am fine with villians like Zenos because people like him do exist in the real life too and not everyone needs some bad past to have reasons to be a certain way. I am just a bit sad that his story did not end after the fight, because I am not really sure how he can still be interesting to the story itself and I dont want someone that constantly tries to fight us either.