Can we discuss how abusive the GM department is when it comes to 'Grief Tactics'? A

[KageTokage]

The silliest thing I see is people complaining about others missing a S rank because it died too quickly when they were among the ones doing 7K+DPS to the thing.

If everyone just let the tanks kill squishy ARR S ranks, there probably wouldn't be any complaints ever, and they'd still die in good time.

Eventually they found out they can just use hacks to prevent you from breaking their botting programs. They just warp somewhere you can't access in the game without hacking then teleport away.

I feel like that was probably a gil farming bot because they only ever move using position hacks. "Normal" bots like gatherers wouldn't resort to a behavior that readily exposes them as doing something bannable, since they normally are subtle enough that anyone who isn't familiar with their behaviors wouldn't suspect anything.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Sadly waiting for everyone to show up is only a courtesy. The "early puller" may be "robbing" players of possible credit by not waiting, but those that reset the mob remove all credit from everyone regardless if they were there or not.

If the hunt is pulled sadly you can just kill it or try and see if the person that pulled will just die, but its more than likely not going to kill them unless its an SB hunt. About every ARR Hunt and most of the HW hunts are soloable with a chocobo's assistance.

If 2 people walk up to the last item on a shelf at a store, who gets it? If person A took it off the shelf but then Persona B came and took it from their hands. Not exactly the best comparison, but it gets the idea across nonetheless.

[hynaku]

If you can get reported for resetting a rank hunt then ones that early pulled should be able to be reported to. Isn't that type of griefing. One does shout saying there on there way and one pulls knowing there others on the way.

[Fynlar]

Fair, next.

The people I *do* feel for, however, are the folks who pull hate on something and then accidentally leash it, or the people trying to escape from being hit by something and leash it as a result, because the game isn't clear at all on exactly what a hunt mob's boundaries are (at least with FATEs, you have the FATE circle on the map to tell you when you're about to go out of bounds, but sometimes not all FATE enemies even follow the same boundaries; sometimes they can be leashed without even leaving the FATE)... and then end up getting reported as a result of this because people think they are griefing. That doesn't seem to be what happened here though, so... yeah, fair.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Its fair. They enacted this ruling because of the terrible trolling that went on with people resetting hunts, causing many to lose credit, especially when it was almost dead. Just like people who made macros calling out people who pulled got punished. it just caused massive hate and drama.

And I would hardly call this GM abuse. They are just doing their jobs. They just don't treat people differently based on how they are seen by the community. They are incredibly "by the book"

Don't reset hunts.

If you don't call them out, the world is not going to end. Most of the people who benefit from that don't actively hunt anyway.

[Theodric]

The lack of any nuance is the issue. Reform is needed.

Many of the game's rules are designed with the Japanese community in mind - they're the sort to be pleasant and patient, so ample time is given to players to show up to a hunt target.

The same is true of some of the EU and NA servers. Yet it only takes one player to ruin it for everybody else - and on Balmung there's a handful of players who deliberately go out of their way to try and deny other people access to hunt targets despite having all the titles and the mount themselves. They relish in the controversy.

Such attitudes are far more detrimental to the community than an enemy being reset.

[Spiroth]

Hunt Marks are not World Events.
No one is entitled to them. No one is obligated to recruit, or wait.

I personally, will solo all B Rank Hunt Marks I come across, all ARR A Hunt Marks I come across (I kill about 2 of those each day), any HW A Hunt Marks I can beat (stupid Mirka), and I will invite my close friends to 8-Man HW S Rank Hunt Marks, and SB A&S Rank Hunt Marks I find in the wild or spawn myself.

I have been trying to see if I can solo an ARR S Rank but I haven't had the chance yet, since other people are spawning them immediately when their windows are up.

Out of courtesy I will not engage in an S Rank Hunt someone else spawned until I see the spawner actually attacking the Hunt.
But I am not obligated to do it, it is ONLY out of courtesy, and thankfully my server's primary 24h/7d S Rank Hunt spawner is an "early puller" lol.


A/S Rank Hunts are designed for Light/Full Party, NOT as World Events. We are not entitled to wait. And it's entirely offensive to forcefully remove other players' accumulated Credit by resetting. It is not a practice I have seen at my server, but if I do, I will 100% report it as griefing.

[alimdia]

Hey OP, you have to understand how griefing intent works. If you state anywhere that you intend to reset a hunt you are breaking the rules as you are disrupting other people who are attacking the hunt. However, if you accidentally get aggro and run away with the intent of dropping aggro your intent is not to disrupt other people, you're using one of the game-established mechanics to lose aggro.

This is very similar to what happens in dungeons, there's a big difference between saying in your fc that you don't like that SAM and are gonna kick him, another completely different thing to kick the sam for "playing sub-optimally", the way you state things in chat is what matters when it comes to "griefing intent", because GMs will be making intent assumptions based on what you state in chat, as we all know they only use in-game evidence before actioning your account.

Just some food for thought.

[Spiroth]

Hey OP, you have to understand how griefing intent works. If you state anywhere that you intend to reset a hunt you are breaking the rules as you are disrupting other people who are attacking the hunt. However, if you accidentally get aggro and run away with the intent of dropping aggro your intent is not to disrupt other people, you're using one of the game-established mechanics to lose aggro.

This is very similar to what happens in dungeons, there's a big difference between saying in your fc that you don't like that SAM and are gonna kick him, another completely different thing to kick the sam for "playing sub-optimally", the way you state things in chat is what matters when it comes to "griefing intent", because GMs will be making intent assumptions based on what you state in chat, as we all know they only use in-game evidence before actioning your account.

Just some food for thought.

Kicking for playing sub-optimally admits parsing, so it's reportable.
Also, accidentally resetting the Hunt is possible, accidentally reset it 2 times is not. So, reportable.

[alimdia]

Kicking for playing sub-optimally admits parsing, so it's reportable.

Nope, you don't need a parser to notice that MNK isn't using AoEs, or that the pull took twice as long to finish, or that your BLM is spamming blizzard spells.

Also, accidentally resetting the Hunt is possible, accidentally reset it 2 times is not. So, reportable.

Everything is reportable, even looking at you the wrong way is reportable, but not everything is actionable. You're not a GM so I don't know why you're posting hard numbers like "2 times is not".