Jobs and Classes: Ratios.

[Bowen]

wouldn't have mattered what way round you thought it. neither was a stupid guess both had good reasons for being either BLM or WHM. only one could be tho

I agree, what I meant though was that you were saying that CNJ -> WHM was stupid, which isn't the case at all.
I just thought BLM would make a bit more sense. :/
What I really would want to know is their reasoning behind the way the did this. Not that it matters much but, I would really like to know.

[Ruinaru]

Honestly at this point I am hoping this is how the jobs and classes will be from now on.

I swear if BST -> SMN I will be very angry.

The only problem with that is that a lot of those jobs have weapons that don't go with a class. The way it seems like it's gonna work, is that equipping a "job stone" to a class will turn it into that job, presumably using the same gear it could before.

They could just make it so that there are certain weapon types that are only equippable alongside a particular job stone, but I haven't heard anything from the devs implying that to be planned or even possible. I guess anything is possible when it comes to 2.0, though.

[Daenerys_Sedai]

Oh good, I thought for the majority of that post that you thought I meant that I thought CNJ -> WHM was stupid.

I agree. There was a 50/50 chance either way when you think about BLM spells. However, I think a lot of the animosity stems from the eleventy billion threads that were created that decried "OMG WHY IS CNJ NOT BLM?!" or "What aboutz t3h LoRE?!"

A lot of those posts made valid points. However, those points become repetitive and redundant. They occurred pre and post announcement. To sum it up:

Pre-Job Announcements:
1st to 2nd threads re: CNJ and THM jobs -> valid points made. Supportive arguments which are valid, sound, and "have a point" (i.e. something for the developers to consider)
3rd to eleventy billionth: still valid points, but the SAME points that were made in the 1st and 2nd threads. At this time, I'm just tired of seeing the same arguments written by someone else who didn't bother to scan the other threads.

Post-Job Announcements:
1st to 2nd threads: Understandable outrage (again, 50/50), but your arguments and points are moot. SE developers thought about it and made a decision. Move on.
3rd to eleventy billionth: You're not saying anything novel. Again, move on.

My above statements can be applied to about 50% of the threads created in this forum: How many threads do we really need that express this sentiment?: "I am not happy with paying a subscription (full or reduced) for Final Fantasy XIV until 2.0. I am reconsidering how I spend my free time."

What this forum needs is greater scrutiny by admins, thread consolidation/locking, and a web version of Strunk & White on the side bar.

[Bowen]

The only problem with that is that a lot of those jobs have weapons that don't go with a class. The way it seems like it's gonna work, is that equipping a "job stone" to a class will turn it into that job, presumably using the same gear it could before.

They could just make it so that there are certain weapon types that are only equippable alongside a particular job stone, but I haven't heard anything from the devs implying that to be planned or even possible. I guess anything is possible when it comes to 2.0, though.

I don't see which jobs wouldn't have the same weapons. . .
Unless of course you are refering to the ones that mix two classes then yeah. . .
But, I really was trying to say that I wanted what was said in the first paragraph.

[Ruinaru]

I don't see which jobs wouldn't have the same weapons. . .
Unless of course you are refering to the ones that mix two classes then yeah. . .
But, I really was trying to say that I wanted what was said in the first paragraph.

Yeah, I was referring to the bottom section of your quote. Geomancer with Bells and all that.

(I also don't think Musketeer should be a support class, since Archer has that covered, but I didn't mention it before.)

[grandm]

The only problem with that is that a lot of those jobs have weapons that don't go with a class. The way it seems like it's gonna work, is that equipping a "job stone" to a class will turn it into that job, presumably using the same gear it could before.

They could just make it so that there are certain weapon types that are only equippable alongside a particular job stone, but I haven't heard anything from the devs implying that to be planned or even possible. I guess anything is possible when it comes to 2.0, though.

this is what i have given a bit of thought into and why i feel the class system is a bit of a ball and chain that FF14 is dragging around. as it stands the weapon we wield is what identify's the class, when we put a job stone in we will still have the same weapon we are just and advanced class bassicly, the problem i see is this for a second job. GLD - dark knight/samurai, few options for a sword user ARC = ranger, np it uses a bow. but what about LNC and PUG, what else uses a spear or claws?

as i say the problem is the class system is the fundamental piece of programming that controls how characters work, even with the job system the class system as we know it stays exactly how it is, even the battle reforms as big as they are don't change the class system in any way. i can only guess the class system is foundation of the game, and would be harder to change than the server. and i don't see the class system being very friendly to a second job.

(i hope i'm wrong)

[Ruinaru]

this is what i have given a bit of thought into and why i feel the class system is a bit of a ball and chain that FF14 is dragging around. as it stands the weapon we wield is what identify's the class, when we put a job stone in we will still have the same weapon we are just and advanced class bassicly, the problem i see is this for a second job. GLD - dark knight/samurai, few options for a sword user ARC = ranger, np it uses a bow. but what about LNC and PUG, what else uses a spear or claws?

as i say the problem is the class system is the fundamental piece of programming that controls how characters work, even with the job system the class system as we know it stays exactly how it is, even the battle reforms as big as they are don't change the class system in any way. i can only guess the class system is foundation of the game, and would be harder to change than the server. and i don't see the class system being very friendly to a second job.

(i hope i'm wrong)

I think the class system we have is something that can be worked with. The real problem is that for every classic FF job they want to add, they will almost always have to add a new class with a new weapon as well. This means that even with only 10 classic FF jobs, there will be 20 total battle classes to choose from, not to mention all the crafting and gathering classes. It'll start adding up fast and could become too much to handle.

[AceofRains]

I think the class system we have is something that can be worked with. The real problem is that for every classic FF job they want to add, they will almost always have to add a new class with a new weapon as well. This means that even with only 10 classic FF jobs, there will be 20 total battle classes to choose from, not to mention all the crafting and gathering classes. It'll start adding up fast and could become too much to handle.

No, they don't need to make a new weapon for every classic job. >.<

[Jericho]

I'm not a huge fan of any sort of 2:1 class:job ratios. It seems like that would complicate things that are supposed to be being simplified and streamlined. I do agree that it would add depth. I am, however, big on the 1:2 ratios, and would have loved to see a second weapon (similar) added to each class and a 2nd job offered.

My old idea:
-Change class rank to be more like physical level, and add in job levels, 2 jobs and 2 weapons per class.
-Once a job is unlocked, if you equip that jobs weapon, you become that job automatically
-If you only have 1 of 2 jobs unlocked, and you equip the weapon type that does not have the job unlocked, you just became that class on its own, until you unlock the 2nd job.
-Each class had exclusive and shared skills, and each job had its own skills. Jobs in the same class shared the classes exclusive skills.

GLA: Similar magic, light vs. dark
Pld -> Sword/shield combo
Drk -> G.Sword

PUG: Enhanced evasion classes
Mnk -> Blunt fists
Thf -> Clawed fists

MRD: Brute force
War -> 2 handed axe
Vkg -> 1 handed axes

LNC: Automatic pets
Drg -> Spears, dragon pet
Pup -> Poles, automaton pet

ARC: Ranged
Brd -> Instrumental bow, or whatever
Rng -> Other...bows, no magic

CON: Happy magic
Whm -> Wands
Sch -> Radicals (staves?)

THM: Angry magic
Blm -> One of the weapons
Rdm -> The other one.

Expansion classes....

RON (Ronin): Tool users, Eastern weapons
Nin -> Katana (Dual)
Sam -> G.Katana

CTL (Controller): Magic pets
Bst -> Clubs
Smn -> Another type of staff

MSK: Very similar to ARC, has a support job and a damage job
Cor -> Handguns
Cnn (Cannoneer) -> 2 handed guns

ARC: Machines/technology
Mch (Machinist) -> Tools, bombs?
Geo -> Natural magic...?

Dancer in there somewhere.

[AceofRains]

I'm not a huge fan of any sort of 2:1 class:job ratios. It seems like that would complicate things that are supposed to be being simplified and streamlined. I do agree that it would add depth. I am, however, big on the 1:2 ratios, and would have loved to see a second weapon (similar) added to each class and a 2nd job offered.

My old idea:
-Change class rank to be more like physical level, and add in job levels, 2 jobs and 2 weapons per class.
-Once a job is unlocked, if you equip that jobs weapon, you become that job automatically
-If you only have 1 of 2 jobs unlocked, and you equip the weapon type that does not have the job unlocked, you just became that class on its own, until you unlock the 2nd job.
-Each class had exclusive and shared skills, and each job had its own skills. Jobs in the same class shared the classes exclusive skills.

GLA: Similar magic, light vs. dark
Pld -> Sword/shield combo
Drk -> G.Sword

PUG: Enhanced evasion classes
Mnk -> Blunt fists
Thf -> Clawed fists

MRD: Brute force
War -> 2 handed axe
Vkg -> 1 handed axes

LNC: Automatic pets
Drg -> Spears, dragon pet
Pup -> Poles, automaton pet

ARC: Ranged
Brd -> Instrumental bow, or whatever
Rng -> Other...bows, no magic

CON: Happy magic
Whm -> Wands
Sch -> Radicals (staves?)

THM: Angry magic
Blm -> One of the weapons
Rdm -> The other one.

Expansion classes....

RON (Ronin): Tool users, Eastern weapons
Nin -> Katana (Dual)
Sam -> G.Katana

CTL (Controller): Magic pets
Bst -> Clubs
Smn -> Another type of staff

MSK: Very similar to ARC, has a support job and a damage job
Cor -> Handguns
Cnn (Cannoneer) -> 2 handed guns

ARC: Machines/technology
Mch (Machinist) -> Tools, bombs?
Geo -> Natural magic...?

Dancer in there somewhere.

That would require making alot of items just for each class, might as well get rid of class/jobs altogether at that point.